Who can beat Khabib?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Ishaq, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    No I’m not. I did not say believe in, I said hold. As in both able to deal with cognitive dissonance and the ability to hold two opposing views in your head about an issue and understand or even emphasize with both sides without believing both are right. I can hold the idea that I don’t think Khabib is a bad person who doesn’t need to “get checked” but also think he was dumb for doing what he did.

    Or being able to understand that for someone from a rougher environment.. it’s not really just about being “thin skinned” and that dismissing a point by saying that, is beyond snobby and arrogant ...AND at the same time believe that Western culture and values overall are better and that there’s a reason beyond “oppression” it’s done so well. Etc etc

    Also rmongler has a good take on it. Either way, it wasn’t semantics.
     
  2. Ishaq

    Ishaq Purple Belt

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    Philisophically, none of the ideas you've stated are opposing ideas.

    Idea 1. Khabib is not a bad person.
    Idea 2. Khabib was dumb for doing what he did.

    These ideas do not oppose each other. The former speaks to Khabib's moral character, the latter speaks to his intelligence. These are not mutually exclusive findings nor do they oppose each other in any way.

    You still haven't proffered any legitimate explanation or rationale why assaulting people is regular business for someone from a "rougher" environment. I have proffered an explanation, because these Russians are exceptionally thin skinned and weak minded. They are unable to withstand personal criticism without becoming enraged due to a stunting in their psychological development. Now you might claim I am arrogant and that may very well be correct, but it doesn't really attack the substance of the argument. One could be arrogant and correct.

    You realize rmongler was describing a flaw in individual logic and basically likened the 'holding' of opposing ideas to schizophrenia?

    Don't worry, I wouldn't dare to call you schizophrenic, lest you think it appropriate to start assaulting me because of your rough neighborhood.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  3. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    You are coming at this from an attitude of naïveté, people still get enraged at slights and insults in our “developed” culture. They just go about getting back at someone differently.

    And I have given one rationale, you just don’t want to accept it. The other rational for it comes from a simple survival perspective, being just “seen” as weak literally can be the difference between eating or not eating and more. And it’s something I’ve found that people who’ve never had to worry about their next meal, in an environment they could literally have it taken from them. (Not “poor in college”)do not understand. And in a rougher environment, it’s perfectly rational to “assault” quote unquote either those weaker, or those who insult you. You find it barbaric, I find it immature, but not necessarily a sign of “stunted development” more a product of the environment, which are very different things. Again I know you disagree, but you also look at it from a completely academic, growing up in relative comfort, with no real world experience in addition to that.
    And let me simplify the “being held accountable for what you say thing” for you. If you were alone in a room with someone and they could hit you, not necessarily beat you, but retaliate to what you said. As in there would be potential actual physical consequences for your behavior and what you said.. would you actually say it. That’s thr basic definition of it.

    That’s what really caused most of this if you know what you are looking at, and why I keep saying it’s hypocritical to want Khabib “checked” you have to say the same about Conor because
    1. Conor the guy from a “civilized” country has been just as “thin skinned” over much less serious stuff. Including jumping into a cage and assaulting a guy who straight beat up one of his teammates.
    2. People like Khabib, know that Conor is inherently a bully, and would never actually say most of the things he does.. if he wasn’t being protected or if there would actually be consequences. To someone like Khabib, that is more pathetic and insulting than anything Conor actually said.
    3. Continuing that last thought, again to someone like Khabib, Conor throwing the dolly at the bus.. separated by a barrier while other fighters are around to “get back at Khabib” for dissing his little buddy Artem rather than just going after Khabib alone. Is extra sad.
    4. Then after beating the shit out of Conor and breaking him, you know actually backing up his trash talkhis buddy talking trash saying come here because a fence was between them.

    Of course Khabib did what he did. Of course he shouldn’t have. You also should be careful about the entitlement and hypocrisy in your arguments
     
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  4. dsdoubled

    dsdoubled Brown Belt

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    Gregor Gilespie is going to beat Khabib. He has arguably superior wrestling ability, is a better athlete, has incredible cardio, and doesn't have the draining weight cut to 155. And perhaps the most important reason, time. By the time Gregor gets a title shot Khabib will possibly be just about to slow down a bit or getting complacent.

    Its kinda like the Anderson Silva/Chris Weidman dynamic. Weidman formed as a fighter in the shadow of the mountain that was Anderson Silva. He got to form his entire fighting identity with the purpose of beating Anderson. Gregor is in there training everyday with guys like Khabib set as the gold standard of fighters in his division.
     
  5. Ishaq

    Ishaq Purple Belt

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    Right, so "weak" or sick people or people that seem weak don't get to eat anything anymore in Russia. Lol GTFOH with that melodramatic medieval BS. There are much rougher, poorer places in the world yet those people aren't hyper aggressive quacks that have trouble dealing with criticism.

    Like Khabib, you are now doubling down on your stupidity.

    You are not the brightest crayon in the box. You truly can't keep Conors name out of your mouth despite the conversation being about someone else. I wanted Conor checked a long time ago. He was checked by Nate and by Mayweather and again by Khabib.

    Right and you know Conor would never say this, how? Is this your personal opinion or are you passing this off as verifiable fact?

    I'm sure Khabib would understand the "extra sadness" after he went after that Artem guy with all of his boys.

    Lel, what is this? A threat? I can see why you would sympathise with highly irrational, weak minded Russian goons.

    Further, there's no hypocrisy in my arguments. You can be well assured of that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  6. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    Sigh, I didn’t threaten you. It would be a completely different conversation if I had, eyeroll. Your overreaction to what was clearly not a threat is somewhat making my point for me. Secondly, Dagestan isn’t Russia, not in the way you are saying.

    Third, yes I’m very sure Conor is like that for the same reasons I predicted how he trains and why he loses to mentally tough opponents years ago. The same way I knew you were a middle class yuppie. Not hard to tell.

    It’s all good, I’m looking at the entire picture with everyone involved. You can’t criticize one without bringing up the other in this context. And quite Frankly, the core of our disagreement is that I don’t think it’s the big deal you do. I understand it’s cage fighting. Have a pretentious or indigent attitude when the type of behavior cage fighting encourages, (no matter how much you try to shield it behind martial arts ethos) actually happens, is hypocritical. As long as you pay people to fight.. this stuff will happen. Pretending this stuff isn’t part of it is how you sell the sport to suburbia, if you actually think it isn’t part of it.. well like I said, naive

    I really don’t care if you disagree, I also know that you’ll have a ceiling on your training because of your attitude
     
  7. Ishaq

    Ishaq Purple Belt

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    Dagestan is in Russia but nobody really cares. This is America Jack!

    Right, so no demonstrable facts or evidence to support your claim. Just your nonsensical crystal ball opinion.

    I'll have a ceiling on my training with my attitude. You would probably end up in jail with yours.
     
  8. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    If you are going to make claims about the place know the geography, and get educated beyond knowing a couple quotes.

    Conor has never done a single one of his stunts or insults unless he’s in a position to be protected.

    Lol the fact that you think this shows, how ignorant you are.
     
  9. Ishaq

    Ishaq Purple Belt

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    Gillespie is the same age as Khabib. Does he have superior wrestling ability though? And can his ground and pound and top control compete with Khabib?
     
  10. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    Gillespie is arguably one of the best top control wrestlers of his entire generation wrestling wise. Good enough to almost always pick too in college which goes against the traditional meta of folk style wrestling unless you are a freak on top like he was. If Gillespie gets on top I’m a hundred percent sure he could ride him especially after seeing his fights
    As far as mma wrestling and who’d take down who, that’s a little more questionable but Gillespie would do better than most world first assume
     
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  11. dsdoubled

    dsdoubled Brown Belt

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    They are the same age yes but Gillespie is not a finished product yet as far as MMA goes. We will likely see him continue to get better and better and more well-rounded. I also put a lot of stock into the weight cut. Gillespie makes 155 comfortably while we all know that khabib has a very hard time. I hold khabib wrestling in very high regard I just have a hard time imagining him doing his usual wrestling domination to a guy like Gillespie with such incredible wrestling credentials.
     
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  12. Ishaq

    Ishaq Purple Belt

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    Khabib has much better chain wrestling especially against the fence. But who knows, with a strong base, Gillespie might be able to stuff everything.
     
  13. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    Lol, Gillespie’s scrambling was freakishly good as well.
     
  14. rmongler

    rmongler Brown Belt

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    Gillespie has been putting on very impressive performances, a match-up between him an Khabib is probably the most interesting one to me amongst all the 155 contenders. Whoever would win that will have had to be putting above and beyond superlative grappling displays up to do it. Game must elevate game.
     
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  15. Human Bass

    Human Bass Black Belt

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    What i see as strength in Khabib is that he is "multi-meta" since ever . A good example of his early days

     
  16. nefti

    nefti Red Belt

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    A wrestler that can force kabib on his back is key imho.
     
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  17. Ishaq

    Ishaq Purple Belt

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    Or a strong defensive wrestler that can't get taken down.
     
  18. nefti

    nefti Red Belt

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    I doubt that person exists, kabib is taking down top level wrestlers in aka. Someone has to tire kabib by havong the ability to return the favor.
     
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  19. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    You know, I’m curious how long you have trained? Asking so I don’t make a snap judgment
     
  20. Ishaq

    Ishaq Purple Belt

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    Your judgements and reasoning are mostly terrible as evidenced in your prior posts.

    6 years, some time off for injuries and moving cities etc. Heading for brown.
     

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