When and why did Green Day start to get a lot of hate?

Never been a fan of them ever. They played a festival over here a while back and I didn't watch one second, to be fair Mastodon were on at the same time.
 
BeardotheWeirdo said:
To understand why people hated Green Day you have to understand Punk culture.

Green Day started on Lookout records, one of the biggest punk labels in California at the time. That whole California skate-punk scene developed around Bad Religion. Punk isn't just a type of music, it's a culture. We put on our own shows, we put out our own records, the whole scene was built around D.I.Y. ethics and radical left wing politics. No ticketmaster, no major labels, no radio and TV coverage. It was all underground, that was a big part of the appeal. The mainstream music industry was seen as the enemy.

Green Day played punk music and they dressed like punks, but that's about as far as it went. Green Day and The Offspring were the first two punk bands from that scene to really make it big, but they didn't represent the punk scene at all.

The when Green Day changed styles and stopped playing punk, many punks got the impression that they just used the punk scene to get big and then chucked it aside when they no longer needed it.

The biggest new punk band currently is G.L.O.S.S. (Girls Living Outside (of) Society's Shit) featuring a trans-gender singer. The biggest punk label Epitaph just offered them a $50k contract (which in underground punk scene is a HUGE amount of money) and they turned it down, because Epitaph is distributed by Atlantic Music (a faceless/heartless major label) Fat Mike then offered them $15k which they also turned down. They decided to release the albums themselves... That's what's expected of Punk bands. My band used to play punk rock, and all the biggest promoters said, no, we don't put on Punk rock shows anymore, we don't want another Green Day on our hands.

Imagine if Brock was the face of MMA, that's a little bit what it was like for the Punks, having Green Day and the Offspring as the biggest voices in the scene was a joke, they didn't even embrace punk culture.
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Damn you beardo I started typing the tale but I see you beat me to it.

The hatred started with the Dookie album when they "sold out" and went major label. Punks get cranky about people making money :)

Its my understanding that a lot of the insomniac album is about how they felt about it.
 
Pretty sure They had a problem at woodstock '94 that didn't help.
 
Well punks are some of the most elitist and hostile music fans around, combine that with the fact that Greenday is a hyper mainstream band yet they still rep punk rock and you've got and explanation for why they get so much shit. That and their recent music is rather bad.
 
carlos cadona said:
Well punks are some of the most elitist and hostile music fans around, combine that with the fact that Greenday is a hyper mainstream band yet they still rep punk rock and you've got and explanation for why they get so much shit. That and their recent music is rather bad.
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It's not that simple, no one begrudges Bad Religion, The Ramones, or NOFX for their success. Even The Offspring never got the same shit from Punks. Offspring and Green Day blew up at the same time, and the Offspring crushed Dookie in global sales.

It was the way Green Day dressed compared to the way they acted that pissed punks off. It was just fashion to them. The Offspring were just skater kids who liked punk, they didn't dress like punks, they dressed like skaters.

After Green Day everybody started dying their hair, and old worn down clothing become fashionable, then the emo kids emerged and punk culture. When I was a teen if you met someone with green hair you knew they were a punk, goth or a raver. Nowadays grandma's do it. Everyone gets tattoo's and piercings nowadays just because it's cool...

Green Day made dressing punk cool, it was just a style of fashion to them with no message behind it. When George W. Bush went crazy stealing elections and invading any country he could "justify" war against then they finally spoke up... and alienated many of their mainstream fans, further fueling the supposed "hatred"... I've never met anyone that actually hated them though.
 
Punk rock fans are by and large some of the biggest dorks on the planet who go out of their way to look for shit to whine about regarding bands.

"In punk rock THERE ARE NO RULES!!!!!!!! Except this, this, this, this, this, this...."
 
Max Power said:
Punk rock fans are by and large some of the biggest dorks on the planet who go out of their way to look for shit to whine about regarding bands.

"In punk rock THERE ARE NO RULES!!!!!!!! Except this, this, this, this, this, this...."
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Sounds like you're the one whining, and making broad generalizations to me.

Provide some examples of punks going out of their way to look for things to whine about?
 
BeardotheWeirdo said:
:D That guy doesn't speak for all punks, and he was clearly joking. I'm assuming many of those are inside jokes related to the site where it was posted.


All musical styles have rules. Look what happened to the Dixie Chicks when they spoke out against George Bush and the military.
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You asked for an example and I gave it. Of course #NotAll punk fans, but the stuff posted in that link is quite widespread among the punk rock scene. A mere mention of a band like say, Blink 182 in these circles draws ire from the elitists.

As for musical styles having rules - isn't punk supposed to be the one without rules?
 
Max Power said:
You asked for an example and I gave it. Of course #NotAll punk fans, but the stuff posted in that link is quite widespread among the punk rock scene. A mere mention of a band like say, Blink 182 in these circles draws ire from the elitists.

As for musical styles having rules - isn't punk supposed to be the one without rules?
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Punk music doesn't have rules, punk culture does. You can write acoustic country-ish punk songs, or brutal blast-beat metal influenced punk songs, and anything inbetween. Punk is an attitude, a culture, and also a form of music. It's multi-faceted.

How do you identify something as punk or pop or hip-hop? They're different forms of music because they represent different ideals.

Blink 182 play punk music, but they don't embrace punk culture. Therefore they are a punk band, but they're not punks.

You can't have culture without rules, if there were no rules then there wouldn't be a culture. I was born in the UK, but raised in Canada. I'm British but I'm not British because I was raised in Canada. Playing punk music doesn't make one a punk, it makes them someone who play's punk music. Being born in Britain doesn't make me British, it makes me someone who was born in Canada.
 
BeardotheWeirdo said:
Punk music doesn't have rules, punk culture does. You can write acoustic country-ish punk songs, or brutal blast-beat metal influenced punk songs, and anything inbetween. Punk is an attitude, a culture, and also a form of music. It's multi-faceted.

How do you identify something as punk or pop or hip-hop? They're different forms of music because they represent different ideals.

Blink 182 play punk music, but they don't embrace punk culture. Therefore they are a punk band, but they're not punks.

You can't have culture without rules, if there were no rules then there wouldn't be a culture. I was born in the UK, but raised in Canada. I'm British but I'm not British because I was raised in Canada. Playing punk music doesn't make one a punk, it makes them someone who play's punk music. Being born in Britain doesn't make me British, it makes me someone who was born in Canada.
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Yes it does. "What's that a melody?!!! NOT PUNK!!!!!1212!1!!!!" That kind of nonsense is rife within punk rock.
 
Max Power said:
Yes it does. "What's that a melody?!!! NOT PUNK!!!!!1212!1!!!!" That kind of nonsense is rife within punk rock.
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I'm not sure what kind of "punks" you knew, but they sound pretty clueless, or maybe you just didn't get their sense of humour. Even HC and crust punk bands have melodies in their songs.

The guy in that post was referencing Anti-Flag, who are very melodic and even poppy-sounding. Musically speaking they totally "sold-out" and went poppy when they got popular, but lyrically they're still punk so no one holds it against them.

By 1999 it was just one big scene.

This was the average local show here. You'd get a bit of everything. Just listen to them for a few seconds each to get an idea of the variety of sounds and styles you'd get at punk shows.








I used to put on shows and was in a couple punk bands too. It sounds like you were more exposed to some elitist poser kids
 
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BeardotheWeirdo said:
I'm not sure wat kind of "punks" you knew, but they sound pretty clueless, or maybe you just didn't get their sense of humour. Even HC and crust punk bands have melodies in their songs.

The guy in that post was referencing Anti-Flag, who are very melodic and even poppy-sounding. Musically speaking they totally "sold-out" and went poppy when they got popular, but lyrically they're still punk so no one holds it against them.

By 1999 it was just one big scene.
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It's not just the folks I knew, it's all over the Internet.

"Green Day suck because they signed to a major label."
"How dare that Ramones guy say "God bless President Bush."
"New Found Glory aren't punk! You should listen to *insert random shouty band here* instead."

Comments like those are commonplace in punk rock sites/forums. Those people suck.
 
Max Power said:
It's not just the folks I knew, it's all over the Internet.

"Green Day suck because they signed to a major label."
"How dare that Ramones guy say "God bless President Bush."
"New Found Glory aren't punk! You should listen to *insert random shouty band here* instead."

Comments like those are commonplace in punk rock sites/forums. Those people suck.
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Everybody looks like morons if you go off internet comments. Every atheist, agnostic and religious person in the world (therefore everyone) is stupid by that standard. Every nation in the world has idiots posting on their behalf. That's a terrible way to judge groups of people.

I made a sound argument for why punks don't like punk bands signing to major labels. Why shouldn't punks be upset about that. Name a counter-culture group that likes having their ideas and styles stolen and corrupted by mainstream culture?

I'm sure the Ramones were joking, if not, then yeah fuck them.

Posting A New Found Glory on a punk forum is like posting "Ronda is the GOAT martial artist" on Sherdog, you're gonna get flamed and rightly so.

If you went on a serious movie discussion forum and said you love Transformers you're going to get flamed.
 
BeardotheWeirdo said:
Everybody looks like morons if you go off internet comments. Every atheist, agnostic and religious person in the world (therefore everyone) is stupid by that standard. Every nation in the world has idiots posting on their behalf. That's a terrible way to judge groups of people.

I made a sound argument for why punks don't like punk bands signing to major labels. Why shouldn't punks be upset about that. Name a counter-culture group that likes having their ideas and styles stolen and corrupted by mainstream culture?
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Did you?

As for the whole selling out thing thing, that is bs. Who is to say a band can't make a butt load of money?

I'm sure the Ramones were joking, if not, then yeah fuck them.
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Nah, he wasn't joking. Life long Republican/conservative. I guess that he mustn't be punk going by these silly rules that these fans insist on believing in and enforcing.

Posting A New Found Glory on a punk forum is like posting "Ronda is the GOAT martial artist" on Sherdog, you're gonna get flamed and rightly so.
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Saying NFG suck or whatever is fine, have whatever opinion you want on them obviously, it's when the "that's not punk" crowd start with their nonsense I just laugh at them.
 
BeardotheWeirdo said:
It's not that simple, no one begrudges Bad Religion, The Ramones, or NOFX for their success. Even The Offspring never got the same shit from Punks. Offspring and Green Day blew up at the same time, and the Offspring crushed Dookie in global sales.

It was the way Green Day dressed compared to the way they acted that pissed punks off. It was just fashion to them. The Offspring were just skater kids who liked punk, they didn't dress like punks, they dressed like skaters.

After Green Day everybody started dying their hair, and old worn down clothing become fashionable, then the emo kids emerged and punk culture. When I was a teen if you met someone with green hair you knew they were a punk, goth or a raver. Nowadays grandma's do it. Everyone gets tattoo's and piercings nowadays just because it's cool...

Green Day made dressing punk cool, it was just a style of fashion to them with no message behind it. When George W. Bush went crazy stealing elections and invading any country he could "justify" war against then they finally spoke up... and alienated many of their mainstream fans, further fueling the supposed "hatred"... I've never met anyone that actually hated them though.
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This is likely the best answer I was looking for.
 
Max Power said:
Did you?

As for the whole selling out thing thing, that is bs. Who is to say a band can't make a butt load of money?



Nah, he wasn't joking. Life long Republican/conservative. I guess that he mustn't be punk going by these silly rules that these fans insist on believing in and enforcing.



Saying NFG suck or whatever is fine, have whatever opinion you want on them obviously, it's when the "that's not punk" crowd start with their nonsense I just laugh at them.
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They can make all the money they want, it's not about the money. It's about doing it yourself. It's about not working with major labels because they're going to censor your material. And because of their unethical business practices. It would take me a long time to break it all down but I've read a bunch of articles and interviews with punk bands talking about what it's like to work for a major label.

Punk is a counter-culture, conservatives have no place in the scene. I don't care what that makes me. Nazi's have no place making Reggae. Those are good rules, imo. Punks literally had to fight off the white power punks that tried to make punk their own sound. There's just no place for that shit in an honest counter-culture, conservatives or nazi's.

Sex Pistols started punk, do you know how they made their name? They rented a barge, set-up their gear, sailed out to the Queens yacht where she was having a press conference and played "God Save The Queen" full volume. The music was fast, angry and raw to compliment the mood of the lyrics.

If the conservatives want their own new sound than they should create one instead of trying to steal ours.

If a band wants to change their style to try and get more fans then that's fine with me, everybody needs to make a living, but I don't have to like their new style just because I liked their old one, and it is "selling out" if they just do it to be radio-friendly, which I've seen many bands do. I don't hold it against them, and it doesn't stop me from liking all their other stuff that I always liked.

I thought Dookie was OK, Some of the songs I liked a lot, but overall the album bored me.
 
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