When and why did Green Day start to get a lot of hate?

Not for nothing but the Sex Pistols didn't start punk. It was around long before Malcolm McLaren got his greasy paws on the Dolls. The Pistols were also famous long before their Jubilee stunt. That didn't make their name, it was just another publicity stunt to keep them on the front pages of the papers. Not that I'm knocking the Pistols. They were a good band.
 
It's not that simple, no one begrudges Bad Religion, The Ramones, or NOFX for their success. Even The Offspring never got the same shit from Punks. Offspring and Green Day blew up at the same time, and the Offspring crushed Dookie in global sales.

It was the way Green Day dressed compared to the way they acted that pissed punks off. It was just fashion to them. The Offspring were just skater kids who liked punk, they didn't dress like punks, they dressed like skaters.

After Green Day everybody started dying their hair, and old worn down clothing become fashionable, then the emo kids emerged and punk culture. When I was a teen if you met someone with green hair you knew they were a punk, goth or a raver. Nowadays grandma's do it. Everyone gets tattoo's and piercings nowadays just because it's cool...

Green Day made dressing punk cool, it was just a style of fashion to them with no message behind it. When George W. Bush went crazy stealing elections and invading any country he could "justify" war against then they finally spoke up... and alienated many of their mainstream fans, further fueling the supposed "hatred"... I've never met anyone that actually hated them though.

How did the Offspring crush Green day in global sales? Smash was 14 million Dookie was 20.
 
I think it was around the time they were having angst about the month of September.
 
How did the Offspring crush Green day in global sales? Smash was 14 million Dookie was 20.

Hmmm, well that doesn't change my argument, but I heard on that on the radio (102.1 Toronto) over a decade ago.

I don't know if "Dookie" out sold the Offspring at the time, or if they caught up later, but at the time they made it seem like Offspring were much bigger globally. I guess I shouldn't trust what I hear on the radio.

Not for nothing but the Sex Pistols didn't start punk. It was around long before Malcolm McLaren got his greasy paws on the Dolls. The Pistols were also famous long before their Jubilee stunt. That didn't make their name, it was just another publicity stunt to keep them on the front pages of the papers. Not that I'm knocking the Pistols. They were a good band.

Thanks for the info. I never really got into the old Brit-punk scene. It wasn't even born when the Sex Pistols were around (Not including the comeback tour)

I just heard that on the Much Music or something. The point was/is that punk was/is an attitude and a culture, and supporting right-wing politicians has no place in that culture.

I just read that they made their name by swearing on TV, ha. How the times have changed, partly thanks to Punk and it's attack on "proper" culture

 
To understand why people hated Green Day you have to understand Punk culture.

Green Day started on Lookout records, one of the biggest punk labels in California at the time. That whole California skate-punk scene developed around Bad Religion. Punk isn't just a type of music, it's a culture. We put on our own shows, we put out our own records, the whole scene was built around D.I.Y. ethics and radical left wing politics. No ticketmaster, no major labels, no radio and TV coverage. It was all underground, that was a big part of the appeal. The mainstream music industry was seen as the enemy.

Green Day played punk music and they dressed like punks, but that's about as far as it went. Green Day and The Offspring were the first two punk bands from that scene to really make it big, but they didn't represent the punk scene at all.

The when Green Day changed styles and stopped playing punk, many punks got the impression that they just used the punk scene to get big and then chucked it aside when they no longer needed it.

The biggest new punk band currently is G.L.O.S.S. (Girls Living Outside (of) Society's Shit) featuring a trans-gender singer. The biggest punk label Epitaph just offered them a $50k contract (which in underground punk scene is a HUGE amount of money) and they turned it down, because Epitaph is distributed by Atlantic Music (a faceless/heartless major label) Fat Mike then offered them $15k which they also turned down. They decided to release the albums themselves... That's what's expected of Punk bands. My band used to play punk rock, and all the biggest promoters said, no, we don't put on Punk rock shows anymore, we don't want another Green Day on our hands.

Imagine if Brock was the face of MMA, that's a little bit what it was like for the Punks, having Green Day and the Offspring as the biggest voices in the scene was a joke, they didn't even embrace punk culture.
I understand what you are saying here, but some punk ideology is ignorant and self sacrificing. The story goes that Op Ivy disbanded because of the success they were getting and were offered a record contract, no? Then 2 of the members go on to form one of the most successful punk bands ever in Rancid. Turning down money which could be used to spread your message seems rather dumb when you look at the big picture.
 
I understand what you are saying here, but some punk ideology is ignorant and self sacrificing.

All ideologies do, perfection isn't a destination, it's a concept used to motivate and improve.

The story goes that Op Ivy disbanded because of the success they were getting and were offered a record contract, no? Then 2 of the members go on to form one of the most successful punk bands ever in Rancid. Turning down money which could be used to spread your message seems rather dumb when you look at the big picture.

Rancid turned down a huge offer from Madonna, she also sent nudes pics of her (implying there would be sexual perks involved as well). Instead Tim started Hellcat records and they did things for themselves... Tim must be loaded by now.

Fame is a funny thing. If you like your space and anonymity then it can be a nightmare. Fame is a type of power, and power tends to corrupt. There's nothing wrong with living a blue-collar life. I can understand why Jesse wouldn't want that kind of a life for himself, but it's really unfortunate as a fan. If Tim was able to retain the rights for that album (that Lookout records own) then it would still be in almost every music store in the world.

Pearl Jam were gods in the early 90's. Eddie Vedder couldn't take it, they stopped making videos, refused to work with ticketmaster and went on strike, they stopped releasing singles, then finally they just totally changed their style. To some people fame is a nightmare. PJ was able to make a lot of positive changes in the musical world by providing alternatives to ticketmaster, but it almost drove Eddie off the deep end.

Turning down money from major labels comes from the "one dollar one vote" ideology. We should try and spend our money responsibly, and for the same reason we should also try to earn it responsibly. I can fully understand not wanting to make money for companies that you disagree with.

The three big major labels are Universal, Sony, & Warner Brothers, they have many smaller subdivision labels.

Universal is owned by Vivendi. A French media conglomerate. They own TV stations, large media publications, film studios, phone companies, video game companies, French version of ticketmaster etc. Does anyone start playing music to make billionaires richer? Certainly no punk rocker ever has. Why share your profits with them?

Universal is another massive company whose board and directors surely looks down on punks as the scum of society. Sony owns banks. That company is huge, I wouldn't want to share my profits with them, why not support the scene. Offspring, Rancid & NOFX reached massive success, on their own terms. Bad Religion worked with a major label, they did it on their own terms, and it got them the global distribution rights that they were unable to obtain otherwise, due to politics. That was unfortunate but the system is set up that way, sometimes punks have to work with them.

Punk planet magazine did an entire issue about major labels, with interviews from almost every punk/emo/ska band that signed with a major in the 90's. Courtney Love also did a scathing breakdown of the way the labels work, when Metallica was whining about Napster. She said 95% of the bands only make money from touring, she encouraged pirating since it was just stealing from the labels, and then she encouraged people to go see live bands instead. She was a terrible person but that was the best thing she ever said/wrote.

The labels give you a contract for say $100,000 (if you're a successful band) Out of that contract they take money to pay for the recording of the album, then they take out money to pay for the marketing campaign, which the band has no say over. By the time everything is done, and the remaining money is divided up by the band members they're making maybe $10k each. All their money comes from touring, and even then the promoters, and ticketmaster, and the labels are all taking their share of the profit. People think boxing and mma promoters are bad (and they're right) but major labels can be pretty fucking evil too.

Not to mention the power the labels have over the band, do you know how many bands have had their albums rejected because the label doesn't like the direction they're going? It's fairly common. Also the labels have managers who represent approximately 50-100 bands each. When they get a popular band, or if you're making obscure music like punk/ska you can often end up at the bottom of the pack, fighting for attention.

Sorry for the novel, but it's a complex subject
 
Being born in Britain doesn't make me British, it makes me someone who was born in Canada.
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When they appeared on American Idol, that and most of their fans grew up
 
@Cygnus A

The band G.L.O.S.S. just turned down a huge offer from Epitaph, and two offers from Fat Wreck Chords as well, and then broke up over the idea of being famous. Here's why:

G.L.O.S.S. has decided to break up and move on with our lives. We all remain close friends, but are at a point where we need to be honest about the toll this band is taking on the mental and physical health of some of us. We are not all high-functioning people, and operating at this level of visibility often feels like too much.
We want to measure success in terms of how we've been able to move people and be moved by people, how we've been able to grow as individuals. This band has become too large and unwieldy to feel sustainable or good anymore — the only thing growing at this point is the cult of personality surrounding us, which feels unhealthy. There is constant stress, and traveling all the time is damaging our home lives, keeping us from personal growth and active involvement in our communities. Being in the mainstream media, where total strangers have a say in something we've created for other queer people, is exhausting.


http://exclaim.ca/music/article/g_l_o_s_s_call_it_quits

It's not just as simple as, "it's not punk to be mainstream"


incomplete edit

Being born in Britain doesn't make me British, it makes me someone who was born in Britain.

TL/DR; seems like @BeardotheWeirdo has a lot of angst pent up and needed to be released.

There's just no short way to describe why punks dislike major labels. I could've made the post much much longer.

I didn't want to get into it but people keep acting like the idea is crazy, and I don't think it is.
 
Greenday were hardly The Clash or Black Flag were they? Dookie is a pretty slick poppy album.
 
Thanks for the info. I never really got into the old Brit-punk scene. It wasn't even born when the Sex Pistols were around (Not including the comeback tour)

I just heard that on the Much Music or something. The point was/is that punk was/is an attitude and a culture, and supporting right-wing politicians has no place in that culture.

I just read that they made their name by swearing on TV, ha. How the times have changed, partly thanks to Punk and it's attack on "proper" culture

The far right never really had much success in the original punk scene. They were a lot more active in the skinhead scene which was ironic given it was founded on ska and Jamaican music. I think the 80s were the point when facism became more popular in the punk scene. My interest in punk begins at the Stooges and ends with the Dk's/Misfits, so I don't know what it's like these days. Although I like these guys -

 
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Basically the moment Dookie was released and they got airplay on MTV. They dressed and looked like "punks" but they played pop music. The punk scene hated them for commercializing their culture.

As far as I know, Green Day has said that they were never punk but they sure did take the aesthetics and without it, I don't think they would have been successful. It was classic big record label marketing.
 
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