What's goin' down at Tocco's (video): | Page 22

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Sinister, Feb 24, 2014.

  1. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    Doctors are not required to study sports, and SOME Doctors, depending on what their specialty is, have access to information on concussive trauma caused by boxing and/or any other contact Sport. My "formation" in the medical field was primarily as an RD, specializing in athletic nutrition, before I became a full time trainer. I'm well-versed in biochemistry, wait a minute, why am I explaining myself to you?

    I spend every day all day around athletes in a contact Sport. I don't care what your degree is in, you can be opposed to it all you want. There has been PLENTY of discussion around here regarding this subject, much of which I've participated in, you can look all that up if you like. However, you can rest assured there's no need to lie to you. A jarring fall can cause abnormalities in the brain, by your rationale no kid should do anything ever. Which is just absurd. There are risks in every athletic endeavor where a person could be touched by a thing, or jumps from a thing onto another thing, but any trainer worth their salt in boxing understands how to teach kids to defend and protect themselves. Those that don't shouldn't be allowed to participate, but denying kids access to the Sport because "something bad could happen"...yeah, like I said glad you have no say in it.
     
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  2. syiin White Belt

    syiin
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    Hmm, as I understand it, the data on sub-concussive hits and their impact are still relatively new and unexplored. In the most recent published work I've read (and there may be a lot I haven't read), the authors even admitted that so far there isn't enough data to make any recommendations for athletes and factors like equipment, age...etc aren't standardised across the studies. It's also still up in the air as to what constitutes a meaningful sub-concussive force.

    So, nobody can really tell you how much is too much or how hard is too hard. Until then, it's really a matter of opinion and bluster (and probably even beyond then, I mean, how much risk is an acceptable level of risk for children anyway? This can be a really ugly can of worms to open between people from different cultures, how to raise kids).

    I would also be careful about the whole "doctors actually know what they're talking about". As Sinister said earlier, their job is to oppose anything that poses a risk (for good reason) but it's a bit like precautions with pregnant women. A lot of things are unsuitable for pregnant women because they're not proven to be safe, not because they're proven to be unsafe. And a lot of these things will remain that way because hey, who wants to experiment on pregnant women?

    Again, for good reason, but we should appreciate and understand these risks as precautionary and be allowed to make our own decisions.

    Anyway, my 2 cents as a person who just reads a lot and loves boxing.
     
    #422
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  3. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    Actually, Daijon HATES sparring Aza. Aza is strong as a bull, doesn't give a shit about being hit, and once he hit Daijon on the shoulder and knocked him down. Also, Aza buzzed Daijon in one of those rounds. I forget but Daijon said so right after this session.

    Aza is a strange story, I've no idea why he started late...but he never truly had a trainer. He was just strong, could hit, and catches on quick if you explain stuff to him. To my knowledge he had a trainer who just had a tough guy who wanted to fight and said "okay, lets fight." Then he kinda got farmed out. He wants to make $. But he's never been refined. He knows he's strong, knows he's tough, knows he can hit, and is not unskilled...but he has a style where it seems he feels like if he touches you twice you should go away. The bad part is that doesn't work out the way he'd like. So he's got a bunch of losses where people essentially just out-worked him. But as you said, he went the distance with Mosley Jr., and he BEAT Kevin Newman, they just called it a draw.

    As for his work-rate, he's a locomotive, or cyborg as I like to call them. Slow and deliberate, only capable of a few things. But he could do those few things for 50 rounds if he had to, and he'd be at his best in the 45th-50th rounds.
     
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  4. NeverMind Yellow Belt

    NeverMind
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    Damn, Daijon is looking like he has been hitting strides and really coming into his own as not just a fighter but a man. You can visibly see the changes in his own self-confidence from the videos that I remember seeing of him from way back when. You have done a great job with him for sure.
     
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  5. Ilk Orange Belt

    Ilk
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    The other kid is a better boxer than me so do not worry lol :D
     
    #425
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  6. GalegoREB Yellow Belt

    GalegoREB
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    Thats just nonsense, you cant compare accidents that can happen during any kind of physical activity to a sport in which the main purpose is to cause enough damage to the other guy until he cant continue. You have concrete data that shows that kids are more susceptible to traumatic brain injuries. If you put your kids in boxing you are irresponsible and quite frankly a terrible father.
     
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  7. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    lol, All your concrete data does what exactly? Prove that boxing's dangerous? I can compare anything with risk of danger TO THE HEAD to any other thing with risk of danger to the head. Your statement carries a paranoia as if there aren't aspects to the sport designed for negating said damage, again revealing your utter ignorance to boxing or Combat Sports in general.

    Most fighters began when they were children, and boxing is a global Sport, and boxing still has less rates of long-term concussive damage than American football, which is practiced by only a fraction of the population by-comparison. For all the paranoia about concussive damage, nearly every boxer who has ever boxed and retired with their faculties began at ages younger than 12 years old. Hell even President Theodore Roosevelt boxed as a youth, actively sparring before advancements in safety equipment and had enough mental capacity to become a notable President (who still sparred in the White House on occasion). So even the occurrences of long-term brain damage are small when compared to the number of participants globally.

    So you can keep your ad-hominem attacks and judgments for yourself, I'll gladly be a terrible Father who is capable of properly instructing his children on an Art of combat as opposed to whatever you would do.
     
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  8. GalegoREB Yellow Belt

    GalegoREB
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    Yeah I'm utter ignorant about concussions in combat sports when I have more fights than you in boxing and I have suffered from post concussive syndrome 2 years ago after a knockdown in a session of hard sparring.
    I have a lot of respect for your knowledge in boxing I can sincerely say that you have helped me with your posts and videos but in this matter of youth boxing I think you are being obtuse about the dangers of kids boxing competitively.
     
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  9. n.diazismylife1999 Black Belt

    n.diazismylife1999
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    This reminds me of the "X causes cancer" thing. The group studying that has found that EVERYTHING causes cancer except one material found in yoga pants. So you should eat nothing except yoga pant materials unless you want cancer, obviously.

    Same deal with "brain abnormalities." Anything can cause them. It's about degrees. Now, I don't know how likely subconcussive hits are to cause "brain abnormalities" and to what degree, and what kind of brain abnormalities, etc., but it's literally useless to just state that something can cause brain abnormalities just like it's useless to say that something can cause cancer. The usefulness of that information is 0 without comparisons and in-depth data.

    Falling into a nuclear reactor doesn't make you a nuclear scientist.
     
    #429
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  10. Higus Silver Belt

    Higus
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    LOL I'm going to use that one in the future
     
    #430
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  11. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    You can think that all you like, as long as you realize that your personal perspective (from valid experience) is tainting your opinion. This is called confirmation bias. The bottom-line is you make too much of a broad generalization in stating that kids should not box because it puts them at a higher rist for traumatic head injury. Your statement is akin to saying kids should not ride in cars because it increases their risk of dying in a car accident. The notion itself overlooks every safety measure in favor of risk in order to deny access. I find that obtuse about the actual occurrence of long-term traumatic brain injuries and how/why they happen. Merely "boxing" is vague and does nothing to actually address an issue in a way that doesn't suggest killing an entire part of the Sport.
     
    #431
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  12. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    He's definitely done a lot of growing up. Still work to do, but yes. He's starting to be more certain of his identity as a person and a fighter.

    Though he's grown irritatingly argumentative. Kid just likes everything to be dramatic.
     
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  13. YoungCashMoney Orange Belt

    YoungCashMoney
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    Gotta defend my dude here.. his first fight with Kevin was the most boring shit possible, but I definitely don't think he lost, neither one did enough to deserve a win. He faced a mentally unsure Kevin in his pro debut - and I'm sure you'd agree Aza got a lot of experience to face in a pro debut, esp with his punching power.
    But they rematched and Kevin beat the breaks off him, clowned him, and came damn close to knocking him out after dropping him with an uppercut. Once Kevin was mentally right.
     
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  14. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    I saw the fight too, and I understand what Kevin faced himself. But Aza had almost no amateur background to speak of. I won't name his trainers, but they basically just put him in a fight because he wanted to make $ so they put him in a fight. They didn't give a shit who he was in with (in fairness, he didn't either).

    I hear your point of view, just a difference of opinion. I felt Aza controlled the fight and while he never had Kevin in danger, when both guys are doing very little to win, I'll take the guy who is going in at least. Not just trying to land a shot or two then wait for it to be over. But hey, people are always going to see things differently on a draw, especially if they're close to one of the guys. lol
     
    #434
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  15. GalegoREB Yellow Belt

    GalegoREB
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    Riding in cars is supposed to be a method of transportation while the nature of boxing is to cause enough damage to your opponent until he cant continue to fight.
    I will just leave this here.
     
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  16. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    So all this drama aside, Friday night is the first Friday of the month. I got a media site to agree to come down to live-stream it, so the quality should be much better as for whatever reason, my personal phone gets epilepsy whenever I try to stream it. You'll be able to see the sessions here:

    https://www.facebook.com/BoxingNewsAndViews/
     
    #436
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  17. kenji goh Orange Belt

    kenji goh
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    Sinister, I just rewatched the sparring of Silencio. The progress he has made is unbelievable in only 5 months. In sparring he looked way more skilled too.
    One of the most impressive things I have seen in this thread!
    It's a great example of what proper teaching can do.

    I am looking forward to see him growing.
     
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  18. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    Yeah, it's just a shame that his older Brother is the only one who brings them to the Gym, and he's unreliable. His parents can't bring he and his other Brother (who is 14), and their parents are so ridiculously over-protective that they won't let them ride the bus. They don't live that far from the Gym.
     
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  19. Fire of Youth Green Belt

    Fire of Youth
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    Cool vid. Do you happen to have a reference for their published study?
     
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  20. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    So the guy who was supposed to live-stream our videos showed up two hours late and a bit tipsy. But there were 3 other media people there for our First Friday sparring. Here's some links:



    The Southpaw is my guy. He was doing well until the body-shot. The other guy has a lot more experience. He had also done another round with a guy with more experience:



    In this one, the guy in the light blue shirt is my fighter:

     
    #440
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