What do you guys think of Wing Chun?

[chaospfa]

I sparred with a WC guy once, lost tooth in the process. Guy threw like 5 punches a second, with reasonable power to boot, knocked out my mouth guard and broke a tooth. WC can deff be used in mma but basically just to round out MT or kickboxing for your stand up.

 

[ShaolinShaman]

jkd guys usually advocate using the straight blast after youve already weakened the person, basically you "defang the snake" and injure his arms and legs as he strikes- then straight blast him unconscious. If you chain punch in the start of a fight (esp without trapping) you wont have the right effect

 

[Nefron]

Forms arent combinations, dont judge them as if they are meant to be used like combos. They serve a totally different purpose.

Its your fault, you presented it like it has something to do with fighting.

 

[SAAMAG]

I'm not entirely sure that having a "different" power generations would make it more effective, given that boxing actually was greatly refined for a long time due to boxing being continually practiced, tested, applied and succeeded in probably hundreds of thousands of sparring sessions and real matches (same goes for Muay Thai and Kickboxing - I wouldn't knock kickboxing, especially dutch kickboxing, solely because of the likes of Ramon Dekkers kicking ass in Thailand), although those three reasons you've mentioned may have accurately state the main reason why traditional gung fu had failed where other arts had dominated, particularly reason #3.

That's why San Shou, which tries to combine all that's effective in different kung fu styles into one, looks like kickboxing now.

But who knows? Maybe one day there's going to be a kung fu guy in MMA whom TMA can put their banner behind, akin to Lyoto Machida's shotokan karate. Now comes the challenge of separating the BS and finding what's effective, hoping that what's effective haven't already been discovered by the martial arts used in MMA now

Not saying power generation makes it more effective, just something to note in terms of why it takes longer to develop. The rest of it we're in agreeance on. Ramon Dekker converted his style to Muay Thai--he has to fight under their rules and hence his kickboxing was muay thai kickboxing! HAHAHA! I'm just playing man.

But yea, lets hope that one day a TMA guy has the desire to prove his worth in the cage--then this whole argument can be put to rest. The only thing that matters in reality though is how well you do with your stuff. It doesn't matter who's doing what in the cage really.

 

[Irenaeus]

A Silva uses the side leg kick alot, and some people use trapping because of jkd influence- but yea, this might be the most underrated MA today (kung fu in general has a bad rap)

I had a very strong impression that it's difficult to underrate Wing _un as a practical striking art. Most schools seem to spar very little/without much contact, and those who do are still handicapped with trying to make the concepts of the art actually work.

I'll freely admit I don't know very much about it, but I've seen very little evidence of it being very effective, especially in an MMA context.

 

[Mazinkaiser]

I did sanshou when i was young as well

Sanshou is basically MT with some aikido and some judo moves. nothing more.

Most WC schools just teach u forms and not much sparring, without sparring it is hard to know how to apply the moves in a fight. Chi sao is just one small part to sparring.

WC sparing start at a range and usually takedowns or kicks are used and then they get close and start doing the real thing and no u are not suppose to stand with ur hands in the front like the dude inthe video, ull not be able to block the hooks.

that asian guy in the video i posted, hes abt 172-174 cm tall, 80kg, he got into a big fight in uni, he knocked out 5 Islanders ( Samaons etc ) they were all like 185cm+

I was so suprised, it happened so fast. Hes been doing WC n sparring for 10 years, hes 25 now.

Do any art for 10 years and u will be at pro level ! LOL

 

[Mazinkaiser]

U said u got ur tooth knocked out. How long have u been training? how long has that guy done WC. sounds like he had done sparring as his main training

Once a WC guy gets up close to u with his hands on ur arms or hands, its hard to fight from there

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

the issue isnt that kung fu is not applicable it is that it is not taught well by qualified individuals nor is there a supply of dedicated students to learn

i dont know why in particular it has suffered more so than any other tma:icon_sad:

i view most arts as being very useful

it comes down to the particular training/ trainers not the style

 

[sukotsuto]

the issue isnt that kung fu is not applicable it is that it is not taught well by qualified individuals nor is there a supply of dedicated students to learn

i dont know why in particular it has suffered more so than any other tma:icon_sad:

i view most arts as being very useful

it comes down to the particular training/ trainers not the style

Indeed. They have to modernize it to have an effective answer for all situations and all attacks, as well as not just train hard, but also train smart and train properly to better suit the modern fighting game. In any case, Sanshou may be doing those already anyway.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Indeed. They have to modernize it to have an effective answer for all situations and all attacks, as well as not just train hard, but also train smart and train properly to better suit the modern fighting game. In any case, Sanshou may be doing those already anyway.

exactly the lack of wanting to adapt and prepare for other styles have also made the state of kung fu grow stale

there is nothing wrong with learning other arts in order to gain knew tools and know what to expect from opponents you may encounter after all the ability to "know your enemy" is crucial to becoming a great martial artist

it doesnt make you any less of a traditional martial artist simply because you are being progressive in your approach to learning

 

[Mazinkaiser]

Im doing 5 days of WC a week, do u think I should switch to 3 days WC and 2-3 MT

 

[Mazinkaiser]

im doing 5 days a week for WC, should i do 3 days of WC and 2-3 days of MT instead?

 

[mjw1]

If you want to broaden your horizons why not give it a try however I'd make sure to have a solid base in one art before doing so. You can be a great brick layer or a decent brick layer and carpenter, however it's best to atleast know the one trade before learning the second I would say. You can decide for yourself......

How long have you been doing WC?

 

[chaospfa]

U said u got ur tooth knocked out. How long have u been training? how long has that guy done WC. sounds like he had done sparring as his main training

Once a WC guy gets up close to u with his hands on ur arms or hands, its hard to fight from there

It was less skill than stupidity from my side. We were fighting under japanese kickboxing rules (5 sec clinches, just hand wraps) and I tried to clinch him, he trapped both my hands with one of his and 5 seconds was more than enough for him to chain punch me. But I'll repeat what I said earlier, you'll be stupid to use just WC for stand up in a mma fight, but combine the concepts of chain punching, centre line strikes and hand traps with a base in kickboxing or muay thai and you can deff be a sucessful striker.

 

[Acexwanderer]

There's nothing wrong with focusing on those arts at all, and I practice those arts as well and also find them highly effective. Though I'd say that Boxing is for punches, Muay Thai is for the 8 limbs, and kickboxing is a pale substitute for Muay Thai :icon_chee

But I also know gung fu from a better perspective than you do AND can make it work just as well for me as the other arts do. The reason why "x" style doesn't work for some people could be for a number of reasons: (1) the individual's skills are lackluster (2) the training regimen was flawed, or (3) the system's model is unrealistic or too limited in scope.

Gung Fu employs a different power generation, one that I mentioned in previous posts. This is not something that everyone wants to take the time to master, even though results from it are tremendous. It takes time to learn things this way--more time than aspiring professional fighter has to make work in the ring/cage.



And by your logic you would infer that all gung fu is bad because you fought a couple of bad gung fu guys? "This individual person is bad. This individual person practices kung fu. Therefore all persons who practice gung fu are bad?"

Well since you've gone that far in your thinking...now you should continue to do so and think about why. Logically, we've already determined that there are only so many ways to move the human body from a mechanical perspective, and there are several ways to achieve power. I'd say the people that you saw or fought had probably 2 things in common: lack of skills due to a lack of understanding of real fighting due to a lack of real fighting in their training. Which brings me to the next post....



This guy is pretty much spot on in my opinion. Except that it does take longer to MASTER any fighting art (MT, BJJ, etc, included). Getting proficient in it does not. The long and short of it which I precluded to in my original post in this thread is that the training regimens simply need more pressured sparring. Not only that...they need to do it with people skilled in OTHER arts than their own. Arts that are more likely to be faced as opponents. Those are MMA people right now (given that's the fad at the moment).

In the earlier days of wing chun -- when the "fighters" were well known -- one of the reasons the style was considered so effective is because the practicitioners of the style fought (bareknuckled) against other schools to test what they've learned. This was called "beimo" and more commonly known as the "rooftop fights" by some (though not all happened on rooftops). The schools developed their regimens to fight specific threats--threats common to those locations. Today however, traditionalism has hindered many gung fu styles' ability to grow with the times and adapt to new threats. This is a major problem, and one that I personally remedied by learning other arts because I could see these flaws. But that doesn't detract from the effectiveness of the gung fu theory that IS there so long as that theory is/was based on pragmatic research and solified with current pragmatic processes.

This is where the Alan Orr guys come in in terms of modern wing chun. According to them--they use only wing chun for their standup. With BJJ and Wresting for other areas of combat. Now again, this is debatable because many people believe their wing chun is simply mma being called wing chun, but if you know what you're looking for (as a wing chun person) the elements are there. They've taken the first step to modernizing wing chun for the ring. Good for them. My wing chun is different...but to each their own so long as it works.

Nope, I think Wing Chun sucks because based on what they teach it seems like it would suck, there is proof it sucks and there is no proof that it doesn't suck.

Sanshou doesn't suck because based on what they teach it would seem it is effective, there is proof that it works and I know good Sanshou guys.

Stop trying to sound smart because you aren't.

 

[ShaolinShaman]

 

[ShaolinShaman]

crap wrong video and i cant edit posts


This guy does JKD and is really good with incorporating wing chun

 

[barnowl]

Well there's other reasons that you don't see much gung fu. One is that it's become the "norm" to use boxing, muay thai, etc as the standup. No one is contining to look for other systems to try. (2) It takes longer to get good at gung fu than other systems (in general) and as such its not the best to use when looknig to make an early career at fighting. (3) There's a different mentality that goes along with each system or art. The MMA mentality is not something that most lifetime martial artists value highly. They don't do it for sport, for fame, or for money, or ego; they do it for lifelong improvements in many aspects.

Very well said. Alot of the MMA types don't get this. It baffles the ones that I spar with because while I more than hold my own with them, I have no real interest in ever stepping in the cage.

 

[mjw1]

It was less skill than stupidity from my side. We were fighting under japanese kickboxing rules (5 sec clinches, just hand wraps) and I tried to clinch him, he trapped both my hands with one of his and 5 seconds was more than enough for him to chain punch me. But I'll repeat what I said earlier, you'll be stupid to use just WC for stand up in a mma fight, but combine the concepts of chain punching, centre line strikes and hand traps with a base in kickboxing or muay thai and you can deff be a sucessful striker.

Sounds good and yes I agree with use what is useful to you and disregard what is not....

 

[SAAMAG]

Nope, I think Wing Chun sucks because based on what they teach it seems like it would suck, there is proof it sucks and there is no proof that it doesn't suck.

Sanshou doesn't suck because based on what they teach it would seem it is effective, there is proof that it works and I know good Sanshou guys.

Stop trying to sound smart because you aren't.

Oh yes, my natural ability to articulate on an art that I practice and have a working knowledge of has now been dwarfed by your vastly superior logic of how things seem based on what's found in an pay-per-view event and who you personally know (none of whom actually practice the art in question).

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'd suggest you try to stick with things that you DO have knowledge of.