Werdum coming out to Chechen Music

[Noxcho18]

Any of the links I find are all broken now. A few years ago they were all avaliable, majority being from indepedent Russian reporters. Not sure why you’re having a hard time believing that they were defeated considering you already admitted to them retreating. They are warriors no doubt, but they aren’t a bunch of Superman’s. They were defeated on multiple occasions by the Russians.

I would not consider that retreat a defeat, they were no injuries, the battle (Shusha i think?) was lost sure but it was becasue the Azeris didnt stand their ground. Basayevs battalion just retreated, you make it sound like Dashnak battalion had a heroic battle and killed many of Basayevs battalion. That retreat is exaggerated by many Armenians for some reason. Im not saying they were supermen, they were defeated by the Russian army and had hard times vs the Georgians. The other comment you made "Glad Russia flattened them to the ground" referring to Chechen civilians was disgusting. The Russian air force also bombed the Armenians living in Grozny and destroyed your churches while the Chechens never touched you.

 

[Konster]

I would not consider that retreat a defeat, they were no injuries, the battle (Shusha i think?) was lost sure but it was becasue the Azeris didnt stand their ground. Basayevs battalion just retreated, you make it sound like Dashnak battalion had a heroic battle and killed many of Basayevs battalion. That retreat is exaggerated by many Armenians for some reason. Im not saying they were supermen, they were defeated by the Russian army and had hard times vs the Georgians. The other comment you made "Glad Russia flattened them to the ground" referring to Chechen civilians was disgusting. The Russian air force also bombed the Armenians living in Grozny and destroyed your churches while the Chechens never touched you.

Retreating is basically the same thing as defeat. Shusha was the higher ground and they lost it, not sure what else you can consider that. Doesn’t matter how it sounds they went there to fight Armenians and lost and that’s all that matters, I don’t understand why you are working so hard to defend a terrorist. When I said flattened them I was to the terrorist like Basayev. If Russia didn’t step in then Chechnya would have been Afghanistan lite, they were selling and shooting guns in the middle of Grozny ffs, videos are on YT. The only Armenian Church in Chechnya was destroyed in the 30’s not sure what other churches you’re talking about. I watched multiple Chechens speak about the first war and they said they kicked out anyone that wasn’t Chechen including Armenians because they thought they were spies ‘shpioni’. There is a video of a Chechen talking about it on YT as well, just a regular civilian, not a fighter.

 

[Noxcho18]

Retreating is basically the same thing as defeat. Shusha was the higher ground and they lost it, not sure what else you can consider that. Doesn’t matter how it sounds they went there to fight Armenians and lost and that’s all that matters, I don’t understand why you are working so hard to defend a terrorist. When I said flattened them I was to the terrorist like Basayev. If Russia didn’t step in then Chechnya would have been Afghanistan lite, they were selling and shooting guns in the middle of Grozny ffs, videos are on YT. The only Armenian Church in Chechnya was destroyed in the 30’s not sure what other churches you’re talking about. I watched multiple Chechens speak about the first war and they said they kicked out anyone that wasn’t Chechen including Armenians because they thought they were spies ‘shpioni’. There is a video of a Chechen talking about it on YT as well, just a regular civilian, not a fighter.

Im not defending Terrorists, Basayev can be considered a terrorist sure but many in his battalion did not have the same views as him. Dont tell me you believe in that propaganda that Chechens were "genociding" non-Chechens. The Russians bombed every single building in Grozny, including churches that belonged to orthodox Russians and Armenians. Please post the videos of Chechens being happy to "throw out" all the non-Chechens. Or are they also mysteriously gone like all the other videos where you supposedly saw Kadyrov killing a 16 year old Russian?.

 

[Konster]

Im not defending Terrorists, Basayev can be considered a terrorist sure but many in his battalion did not have the same views as him. Dont tell me you believe in that propaganda that Chechens were "genociding" non-Chechens. The Russians bombed every single building in Grozny, including churches that belonged to orthodox Russians and Armenians. Please post the videos of Chechens being happy to "throw out" all the non-Chechens. Or are they also mysteriously gone like all the other videos where you supposedly saw Kadyrov killing a 16 year old Russian?.

I’m not sure what you been by not having the same views as him when a lot of them followed him and did eveything he said. This is the same guy that held a children’s school hostage full of explosives, something even the Arabs don’t do. No I don’t believe that they were gebociding non Chechens however I do believe that they were kicking any non Chechen out since this was coming from a Chechen civilian himself. I’m well aware of the Russians bombing eveything and everybody, they are known to be heavy handed. If you actually read my post then you would know that I was talking about a single guy speaking about the war and what was happening. It would literally take me hours to find said video. I used to watch a lot of videos on YT regarding both of the wars. There is no reason for me to make it up, I’m not gaining anything from it. If you would like then search for yourself, it was a Chechen in his 30’s sitting on a bench in a park talking about it, they are all in Russian. ‘All the other videos’, I literally mentioned one other video which brings the total up to two.

 

[Noxcho18]

I’m not sure what you been by not having the same views as him when a lot of them followed him and did eveything he said. This is the same guy that held a children’s school hostage full of explosives, something even the Arabs don’t do. No I don’t believe that they were gebociding non Chechens however I do believe that they were kicking any non Chechen out since this was coming from a Chechen civilian himself. I’m well aware of the Russians bombing eveything and everybody, they are known to be heavy handed. If you actually read my post then you would know that I was talking about a single guy speaking about the war and what was happening. It would literally take me hours to find said video. I used to watch a lot of videos on YT regarding both of the wars. There is no reason for me to make it up, I’m not gaining anything from it. If you would like then search for yourself, it was a Chechen in his 30’s sitting on a bench in a park talking about it, they are all in Russian. ‘All the other videos’, I literally mentioned one other video which brings the total up to two.

Basayev was not holding schools at that time, and many soldiers in his battalion were not Islamists, it changed after the first war when he suddenly cozied up with Arabs which is why many left his battalion to a more nationalistic battalion. They werent kicking out non-Chechens since over 100.000 non-Chechens lived in Grozny when the war started. Sure there were incidents but it wasnt only in Chechnya but Russia was riddled with crime right after the fall of the Soviet Union.

 

[Konster]

Basayev was not holding schools at that time, and many soldiers in his battalion were not Islamists, it changed after the first war when he suddenly cozied up with Arabs which is why many left his battalion to a more nationalistic battalion. They werent kicking out non-Chechens since over 100.000 non-Chechens lived in Grozny when the war started. Sure there were incidents but it wasnt only in Chechnya but Russia was riddled with crime right after the fall of the Soviet Union.

I never mentioned a specific time. He’s still the guy that was responsible for holding children hostage, a decent amount of them were Muslim if I’m not mistaking. And those are the incidents that’s in talking about since it was coming from a Chechen source.

 

[Noxcho18]

I never mentioned a specific time. He’s still the guy that was responsible for holding children hostage, a decent amount of them were Muslim if I’m not mistaking. And those are the incidents that’s in talking about since it was coming from a Chechen source.

I wasnt defending Basayev, i was talking about those in his battalion, many of whom are still Chechen heroes.

 

[Konster]

I wasnt defending Basayev, i was talking about those in his battalion, many of whom are still Chechen heroes.

Which ones do you consider heroes because a lot of people would consider anyone under his command a terrorist. I remember reading a story about an Artsakh soldier saying Chechens were much worse than Azeris.

 

[Noxcho18]

Which ones do you consider heroes because a lot of people would consider anyone under his command a terrorist. I remember reading a story about an Artsakh soldier saying Chechens were much worse than Azeris.

Khunkar-Pasha Israpilov was in the battle of Shusha, Basayev was not considered a terrorist at that time, hell he was almost a hero to the Russians.

 

[Konster]

Khunkar-Pasha Israpilov was in the battle of Shusha, Basayev was not considered a terrorist at that time, hell he was almost a hero to the Russians.

Well Armenians considered all of them terrorists because they came to our land to kill our soldiers when we never did anything to the Chechens.

 

[Noxcho18]

Well Armenians considered all of them terrorists because they came to our land to kill our soldiers when we never did anything to the Chechens.

Well they werent, Your best friend Russia sent them.

 

[Konster]

Well they werent, Your best friend Russia sent them.

They definitely were and Russia didn’t send them. Basayev went there on his own to help his Islamic brothers.

 

[Noxcho18]

They definitely were and Russia didn’t send them. Basayev went there on his own to help his Islamic brothers.

They went there with the pretense of helping "muslims" but Basayev was a GRU officer and had good connections with the Russians. One year later he even helped the Abkhaz gain independence through Russias help.

 

[Konster]

They went there with the pretense of helping "muslims" but Basayev was a GRU officer and had good connections with the Russians. One year later he even helped the Abkhaz gain independence through Russias help.

If he indeed went there because of the Russians then he would be fighting on Armenians side so what you are saying doesn’t even make sense. He even said so in the video, that he went there to help fellow Muslims and when he came there he found out that it wasn’t about religion, but nationalistic reasons and that’s why he left. Taking Azerbaijani weapons with him.

 

[Noxcho18]

If he indeed went there because of the Russians then he would be fighting on Armenians side so what you are saying doesn’t even make sense. He even said so in the video, that he went there to help fellow Muslims and when he came there he found out that it wasn’t about religion, but nationalistic reasons and that’s why he left. Taking Azerbaijani weapons with him.

Why would he fight for the armenian side if he was a Russian agent? Russia supplied arms to both Armenia AND Azerbaijan. Infact Basayev acted on Russias interests, helping pro Russian Azeris in their politics. During that time not one Chechen had a reason to go to Nagorno-Karabakh (except for mercs and Russian interests), Chechens at that time didnt believe in "Jihadism", if they did then you wouldve heard of them in Afghanistan during the 80s.

It is a well known fact that Basayev was a Russian agent during that time, high ranking Russian generals have confirmed this like Lebed and Drozdov.

 

[Konster]

Why would he fight for the armenian side if he was a Russian agent? Russia supplied arms to both Armenia AND Azerbaijan. Infact Basayev acted on Russias interests, helping pro Russian Azeris in their politics. During that time not one Chechen had a reason to go to Nagorno-Karabakh (except for mercs and Russian interests), Chechens at that time didnt believe in "Jihadism", if they did then you wouldve heard of them in Afghanistan during the 80s.

It is a well known fact that Basayev was a Russian agent during that time, high ranking Russian generals have confirmed this like Lebed and Drozdov.

Because Armenia has stronger relations with Russia and always votes for anything that Russia wants, unlike Azerbaijan. Not to mention Azeris always claim that we won the war only because of Russian help even though we were outnumbered 3-1. I don’t know if they believed in ‘Jihadism’ or not but they sure as shit believed in the Islamic cause and that’s why they were there, just like other Muslims from Central Asian republics and Afghans that fought against us.

I have a source which I posted that he says he was there to help Muslims, nowhere does he say he’s there because of Russian interest unless you can provide a source.

 

[Noxcho18]

Because Armenia has stronger relations with Russia and always votes for anything that Russia wants, unlike Azerbaijan. Not to mention Azeris always claim that we won the war only because of Russian help even though we were outnumbered 3-1. I don’t know if they believed in ‘Jihadism’ or not but they sure as shit believed in the Islamic cause and that’s why they were there, just like other Muslims from Central Asian republics and Afghans that fought against us.

I have a source which I posted that he says he was there to help Muslims, nowhere does he say he’s there because of Russian interest unless you can provide a source.

Im sure you have stronger relations with Russia but its not a secret that Russia also provided the Azeris with weapons. Wether they helped Armenians more or were more supportive to Armenians that doesnt matter, because my point is that Basayev worked under Russians and was in Azerbaijan for Russian interests.

Here is a a source from Wikipedia(yeah yeah wikipedia is not a bad source)
According to some statements, during the Georgian-Abkhaz conflict the Chechen volunteers were trained with the participation of Russian military specialists. Konstantin Nikitin, a former officer of the special forces of the Federal Service of Counterintelligence, Konstantin Nikitin, asserts that Basayev was trained as a sabotage officer by the GRU officers on the basis of the 345th Airborne Regiment [23] (according to the then Georgian Parliament - at the Gyko Maykop base [24]). The former head of the FSB's Public Relations Center, Alexander Mikhailov, stated that"A great contribution to the formation of Basayev as a military specialist and professional saboteur was made by Russian military experts and advisers who worked on the Abkhaz side . " Chairman of the People's Assembly of Chechnya Duk-Vakha Abdurakhmanov claimed that Basayev was a regular officer of the GRU [25] ; similar statements were also made by Ruslan Aushev and Alexander Lebed . Major General of the KGB of the USSR retired Yu. I. Drozdov noted that Basayev was one of the leaders of the special purpose unit involved in the military [26] .

Basayev loved to larp as a muslim warrior that tried to protect all muslims around the world. Anybody who has read about him knows that he was mostly a money loving mercenary. He always used "protector of muslims" pretense when it suited him politically. For example, after the First Chechen war and the death of our First president there was an Election. Two of the biggest candidates were Maskhadov and Basayev, Maskhadov won. Basayev then got pissed and started disrespect Maskhadov by going to Dagestan for a "holy war" against "kafirs".

Basayev was a pathetic sack of shit that unfortunately many Chechens love, he only cared for himself.

 

[Konster]

Im sure you have stronger relations with Russia but its not a secret that Russia also provided the Azeris with weapons. Wether they helped Armenians more or were more supportive to Armenians that doesnt matter, because my point is that Basayev worked under Russians and was in Azerbaijan for Russian interests.

Here is a a source from Wikipedia(yeah yeah wikipedia is not a bad source)
According to some statements, during the Georgian-Abkhaz conflict the Chechen volunteers were trained with the participation of Russian military specialists. Konstantin Nikitin, a former officer of the special forces of the Federal Service of Counterintelligence, Konstantin Nikitin, asserts that Basayev was trained as a sabotage officer by the GRU officers on the basis of the 345th Airborne Regiment [23] (according to the then Georgian Parliament - at the Gyko Maykop base [24]). The former head of the FSB's Public Relations Center, Alexander Mikhailov, stated that"A great contribution to the formation of Basayev as a military specialist and professional saboteur was made by Russian military experts and advisers who worked on the Abkhaz side . " Chairman of the People's Assembly of Chechnya Duk-Vakha Abdurakhmanov claimed that Basayev was a regular officer of the GRU [25] ; similar statements were also made by Ruslan Aushev and Alexander Lebed . Major General of the KGB of the USSR retired Yu. I. Drozdov noted that Basayev was one of the leaders of the special purpose unit involved in the military [26] .

Basayev loved to larp as a muslim warrior that tried to protect all muslims around the world. Anybody who has read about him knows that he was mostly a money loving mercenary. He always used "protector of muslims" pretense when it suited him politically. For example, after the First Chechen war and the death of our First president there was an Election. Two of the biggest candidates were Maskhadov and Basayev, Maskhadov won. Basayev then got pissed and started disrespect Maskhadov by going to Dagestan for a "holy war" against "kafirs".

Basayev was a pathetic sack of shit that unfortunately many Chechens love, he only cared for himself.

As I stated before you have no clear source that says he did in fact work for Russian interest in the Artsakh Liberation War. I'n the video I posted he actually says that he was there to help his Islamic brothers. Basayev being a GRU agent is nothing new, everybody knows that just like everyone knows that Russia supplies arms to both Armenia and Azerbaijan during the war and in current times.

I agree about Basayev being a piece of shit just like Kadyrov who abuses his own people on a daily basis for financial gain and more power.

 

[Noxcho18]

As I stated before you have no clear source that says he did in fact work for Russian interest in the Artsakh Liberation War. I'n the video I posted he actually says that he was there to help his Islamic brothers. Basayev being a GRU agent is nothing new, everybody knows that just like everyone knows that Russia supplies arms to both Armenia and Azerbaijan during the war and in current times.

I agree about Basayev being a piece of shit just like Kadyrov who abuses his own people on a daily basis for financial gain and more power.

Well of course Russia wont announce that Basayev was a GRU agent in Azerbaijan, it wont look good.

 

[Konster]

Well of course Russia wont announce that Basayev was a GRU agent in Azerbaijan, it wont look good.

I’m sure they won’t but towards the end of the war and beginning of the first Chechen war I’m sure he would have said he was there for Russian interest because he was so vocal against Russia so I highly doubt we was there for anything but to help his Islamic brothers.

“We came to Karabakh to fight not for war trophies but for the sake of the idea of Jihad”. However, as Basayev says, “when we arrived in the spot and saw the situation we understood that there were no any signs of Jihad there”.

http://www.mediamax.am/en/news/terror/2348/