UFC Boxing Edition Version 3

[Canelo]

Saw the Werdum KO for the first time. What a disservice that performance was to him and his team, what the hell did he think he was doing?

I thought the prelims were pretty great actually, but the main card was a dissapointing. Fucking Vitor pulling guard on Jacare, Werdum getting KO'd by a fireman. Not good man.

 

[robjenkins2]

I'd say that Jacare vs the winner of Rockhold/Weidman makes sense. Then you could do Romero vs Bisping for the next shot. I wanna see Vitor vs Whittaker, that would be great.

 

[Seano]

Look at who Werdum has fought and beat, he's not a good boxer but that doesn't mean he's not a great fighter. There is more than one way to skin a cat in mma, part of what makes it so great.

All I can ever think of when someone mentions Werdum is him throwing a tantrum because Kharitonov wouldn't jump in his guard and let him submit him.

 

[EndlessCritic]

All I can ever think of when someone mentions Werdum is him throwing a tantrum because Kharitonov wouldn't jump in his guard and let him submit him.

I'm not sure what was more embarrassing, Werdum's performance against Overeem, or the people who tried to argue Werdum won that fight.

Regardless, Werdum wiped away the sins of his past with his recent UFC run, and then wiped away his glory with the Stipe fight.

 

[robjenkins2]

All I can ever think of when someone mentions Werdum is him throwing a tantrum because Kharitonov wouldn't jump in his guard and let him submit him.

He did that to Overeem too last time they fought, was pleading with him to enter his guard lol.

 

[robjenkins2]

I never understood why so many gave Werdum a pass for that fight.

The weirdest part of the fight was that Werdum was actually landing good shots on the feet, he would land something and then immediately try to pull guard. It was one of the stranger fights I've seen in mma.

 

[robjenkins2]

I'm not sure what was more embarrassing, Werdum's performance against Overeem, or the people who tried to argue Werdum won that fight.

Regardless, Werdum wiped away the sins of his past with his recent UFC run, and then wiped away his glory with the Stipe fight.

Werdum vs Rothwell or Barnett would be good for his next fight imo.

 

[robjenkins2]

Waste of a fight, I think. Werdum doesn't have much time left. Barnett is more or less shot and Rothwell was just completely dominated. JDS/Werdum 2 makes the most sense to me.

I was gonna say JDS but he just had shoulder surgery and is going to be out for a while I believe. Barnett was beating Rothwell til he got subbed, that would be a good match between high level grapplers imo.

 

[robjenkins2]

Not really. He was landing some shots, yeah, but he looked extremely tentative and was getting hit a fair bit himself. He might be a level above being shot (it's really hard to gauge any of that anymore with MMA's HW division), but I don't think he has a ton to offer Werdum nowadays (of course Werdum just looked like garbage so who knows). At the very least, the grappling would be interesting if Barnett got top position on Werdum, I guess.

I mean he was ahead but not blowing his doors off or anything. JDS would be the fight but he's going to be out for a few months at least. Rothwell makes more sense the more I think about it, the winner would be right back in the title picture. HW mma is wild, I don't see anyone ever having a dominant run really. Too many different styles and you're always one shot away from losing, I know that's true in other divisions but it's even more so true at HW where the fighters are 240 plus. I like Stipe a lot, he's a fellow ohioan, but I'm not sure he even gets through Reem if that's what is next.

 

[nac386]

HW mma is wild, I don't see anyone ever having a dominant run really. Too many different styles and you're always one shot away from losing, I know that's true in other divisions but it's even more so true at HW where the fighters are 240 plus. .

There just is not a great heavyweight, that's all. There are no standouts, so there is a parity that does not exist in some other divisions. One day a great heavyweight will come along and he'll dominate for like 5 or more years straight and everyone will realize how much they overrated the current crop.

But the way mma fans are, is that they think everyone is the goat until they lose....then whoever beat them is the goat. They all need to chill out and appreciate the fighters for who they are.

Have you noticed there is a thread, at least once every few days, wondering if some current fight is the GOAT? lol. It is a weird obsession in the heavies, seeking goats.

 

[nac386]

Think about Jose Aldo and Jon Jones. Now put their talent into a heavyweight...ever seen a guy like that? Nope, not yet. That guy will come along eventually.

 

[robjenkins2]

Rothwell could work if Werdum wanted a quick turnaround, but considering he was just cold-cocked and his age, I can see him taking some time before his next fight. I don't know what JDS's timeframe for return is, but I can't see Werdum getting back in the cage in the next 6 months. As for a dominant run at HW, Fedor already had one.

I meant currently. Fedor also had a lot of pad in his record during that run, but also beat some of the top guys. Werdum said he wanted to get back in there at UFC 200 but you're right he should take 6 months off. If you get flatlined like that it's not safe to jump in there. I admire his fighting spirit though.

 

[robjenkins2]

Think about Jose Aldo and Jon Jones. Now put their talent into a heavyweight...ever seen a guy like that? Nope, not yet. That guy will come along eventually.

I mean there have been some really good guys, elite even. Those are all time talents, Fedor would belong in that conversation like Jay alluded to. Werdum has the resume of an all time great, Nog, JDS, Cain. Reem is one of the most accomplished HW's of all time. I like Stipe a lot too, he just hasn't had the length of quality that these other guys have had yet.

 

[nac386]

I mean there have been some really good guys, elite even. Those are all time talents, Fedor would belong in that conversation like Jay alluded to. Werdum has the resume of an all time great, JDS, Cain. Reem is one of the most accomplished HW's of all time. I like Stipe a lot too, he just hasn't had the length of quality that these other guys have had yet.

All time great is a relative term. It just means you are the greatest of the crop of fighters that have been around so far. There have been a few really talented heavyweights, like the guys you listed. But if we are looking at the most modern UFC, like the last 10 years, the greatest talents have been in lower weight classes.

Same with boxing. How many truly great talents has heavyweight boxing seen in the last decade? 1? Maybe 2 if Joshua pans out. And that is a sport with way more people involved.

 

[robjenkins2]

All time great is a relative term. It just means you are the greatest of the crop of fighters that have been around so far. There have been a few really talented heavyweights, like the guys you listed. But if we are looking at the most modern UFC, like the last 10 years, the greatest talents have been in lower weight classes.

Same with boxing. How many truly great talents has heavyweight boxing seen in the last decade? 1? Maybe 2 if Joshua pans out. And that is a sport with way more people involved.

Yeah I don't understand it. It's like large people just stopped doing combat sports. Decline in numbers big time. Boxing and mma should start scouting ex college basketball and football players or something.

 

[nac386]

Yeah I don't understand it. It's like large people just stopped doing combat sports. Decline in numbers big time.

One day a heavyweight Jose Aldo is going to show up, and everyone will collectively shit their pants. There are athletes like that out there, they just go into different sports.

It's the same thing with high school wrestling teams. A lot of times, the best wrestler on the team is one of the small guys, because he grew up competing in wrestling because it specifically suited his body type. Meanwhile, lots of the heavyweights are just football players that like to stay busy in the winter.

Cormier is actually a really good athlete at heavyweight. I wish he'd move back up, because I actually think he could still win the belt.

 

[robjenkins2]

There really wasn't any question that he was the best HW from 2003 to at least 2008/09 and the only two elite HWs from his era that he didn't fight were Barnett and Couture. He was clearly a dominant HW champion.

Oh I know, I'm not disagreeing, just saying he had quite a few wins in there that didn't mean much of anything really. I still think Fedor is a top ten guy who could do damage in the UFC.

 

[robjenkins2]

One day a heavyweight Jose Aldo is going to show up, and everyone will collectively shit their pants. There are athletes like that out there, they just go into different sports.

It's the same thing with high school wrestling teams. A lot of times, the best wrestler on the team is one of the small guys, because he grew up competing in a wrestling because it specifically suited his body type. Meanwhile, lots of the heavyweights are just football players that like to stay busy in the winter.

Cormier is actually a really good athlete at heavyweight. I wish he'd move back up, because I actually think he could still win the belt.

I thought Todd Duffee was going to be that guy. He was big, fast, powerful. aggressive, moved like he was 200 pounds. Unfortunately he had health issues and seems to have confidence issues and his technique unraveled against the best guys. Don't think he will ever be what he could have been.

 

[nac386]

I thought Todd Duffee was going to be that guy. He was big, fast, powerful. aggressive, moved like he was 200 pounds. Unfortunately he had health issues and seems to have confidence issues and his technique unraveled against the best guys. Don't think he will ever be what he could have been.

I think it will be a guy who is more compact, faster, and more explosive than the other heavyweights. That is why Fedor was so good, he was an exceptional athlete for that weight (regardless of his belly). When you have that athleticism, it reduces the "oh fuck I got knocked out with 4 ounce gloves" scenario's likelihood. The big guys are more lumbering and easy to hit.

Imagine if a guy like Mike Tyson had grown up wrestling and boxing and went into MMA. He'd be a murderer in the UFC heavyweight division right now at 5'10 225 pounds with that level of athleticism (assuming his athleticism translated well). Lightning quick for that division, compact and powerful, hard to land cleanly on.

 

[robjenkins2]

I think it will be a guy who is more compact, faster, and more explosive than the other heavyweights. That is why Fedor was so good, he was an exceptional athlete for that weight (regardless of his belly). When you have that athleticism, it reduces the "oh fuck I got knocked out with 4 ounce gloves" scenario's likelihood. The big guys are more lumbering and easy to hit.

Imagine if a guy like Mike Tyson had grown up wrestling and boxing and went into MMA. He'd be a murderer in the UFC heavyweight division right now at 5'10 225 pounds with that level of athleticism (assuming his athleticism translated well). Lightning quick for that division, compact and powerful, hard to land cleanly on.

It seems like the days of the 265 pound HW dominating are pretty much over. 230-240 seems to be the optimal weight for HW mma. Cain, JDS, Stipe, Werdum, all right around 240. Mike would have been a killer with those smaller gloves, he wouldn't even need to land flush to hurt guys.