Tombstone (1993) vs Wyatt Earp (1994) | Page 6

Discussion in 'Mayberry Lounge' started by shadow_priest_x, Aug 5, 2016.

  1. sickc0d3r Brown Belt

    sickc0d3r
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,835
    Likes Received:
    2,269
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Good points, and I do agree with you. I guess I just didn't like the way it was executed. There was potential there with the setup from the initial scenes with each other, with Josephine being a wild girl for the times, and I thought they did a good job with Doc and Kate's story line. Whatever, still a great movie, just a minor annoyance for me.
     
    #101
    shadow_priest_x likes this.
  2. ProBoxingInsidr Black Belt

    ProBoxingInsidr
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    7,368
    Likes Received:
    3,553
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    well, if they were trying to tell us what kind of guy he was, they fucked up pretty bad. he was just a criminal with a badge, as were most lawmen in those days. certainly far from the noble guy the movie portrayed him to be
     
    #102
  3. TrueBias Black Belt

    TrueBias
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2012
    Messages:
    7,080
    Likes Received:
    1,658
    ive not seen wyatt earp since the first time.

    i remember they focused on the fact that wyatt had never been shot.

    also dennis quaid did a very lazy doc. i dont remember him in any gun fights or talking about being a dentist. wait....val didnt talk about being a dentist.

    odd how both of those movies came out around the same time.
     
    #103
    chickenluver likes this.
  4. shadow_priest_x Titanium Belt

    shadow_priest_x
    Joined:
    May 7, 2008
    Messages:
    36,684
    Likes Received:
    20,500
    Location:
    SLC, UT
    You need to separate Wyatt Earp the real-life man from Wyatt Earp the character in Tombstone.

    I don't think the movie is supposed to be a commentary (or biography) on the real-life man.
     
    #104
  5. BVG Double Yellow Card

    BVG
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2014
    Messages:
    10,555
    Likes Received:
    8,544
    Poor billybob elected to "just stand there and bleed"
     
    #105
    shadow_priest_x and Strychnine like this.
  6. Strychnine Gold Belt

    Strychnine
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    19,508
    Likes Received:
    10,907
    Location:
    Georgia, USA
    I have The Seven Samurai and Ben Hur. :)
     
    #106
    chickenluver and shadow_priest_x like this.
  7. shadow_priest_x Titanium Belt

    shadow_priest_x
    Joined:
    May 7, 2008
    Messages:
    36,684
    Likes Received:
    20,500
    Location:
    SLC, UT
    Oh VHS. . .

    We're so far beyond that format now in terms of technical superiority, but it will always have a special place in my heart.
     
    #107
    Strychnine likes this.
  8. Strychnine Gold Belt

    Strychnine
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    19,508
    Likes Received:
    10,907
    Location:
    Georgia, USA


    Even without the translation, you can FEEL that soon, VERY soon, the space between these two men will turn into Tigers. The way that the dialogue, the pacing, and the simple fact that the Cowboys OWN Tombstone and that's how they like it come together is amazing.

    And ain't no retired Kansas Law-Dog is going to usurp their stranglehold on that town.
     
    #108
  9. shadow_priest_x Titanium Belt

    shadow_priest_x
    Joined:
    May 7, 2008
    Messages:
    36,684
    Likes Received:
    20,500
    Location:
    SLC, UT
    Great scene. I do feel compelled to point out that that's more of a thought for thought translation than a literal one.

    For instance, "in vino veritas" would be more literally translated as "in wine there is truth," or even more literally as "in wine, truth." But of course we all know what he means by that.

    Here's something I pulled from a Latin site that goes into a bit more detail:

    Doc : In vino veritas.
    Ringo : Age quod agis.
    Doc : Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego.
    Ringo : Juventus stultorum magister.
    Doc : In pace requiescat!

    Doc : In wine there is truth.

    Doc Holiday is excusing his own behavior here, and further insulting Johnny Ringo by saying that he is drunk, and saying truthful things he would otherwise not reveal. He had previously said he hated Johnny Ringo for being similar to himself.

    Ringo : Do what you do / Watch what you do.

    This is one of the most interesting lines because it means more than just watch what you do. The line can be interpreted as be careful, or people do what they do (saying that Doc Holiday is drunk because he is a drunkard), and it can also mean something along the lines of do what you do best, which would be gunfight since Ringo had apparently heard of Holiday's skill. It is a challenge and an insult combined into one.

    Doc : Tell it to someone else, not I.

    This line is dismissive. Doc Holiday is conveying the fact that he doesn't care what Johnny Ringo is saying and that he doesn't care what his advice is.

    A common Latin saying meaning "Let the Jew Apella believe it; not I". The phrase means, roughly, tell it to someone else, not me.

    The reference is taken from the work Satires (book one, satire five) by ancient poet Horace. It is derived from a scene where people try to convince travellers of miracles happening at their shrines. The phrase is uttered to convey the disbelief and that they should tell their stories to someone else.

    Ringo : Youth is the teacher of fools.

    When Ringo taps his pistol he says this, which conveys the idea that Doc Holiday is inexperienced (youthfull) and ignorant of the danger he is getting himself into.

    "Juventus stultorum magister" is a common Latin aphorism, or phrase that has many implied and implicit meanings. The sentance translates to "youth is the teacher of fools".

    Juventus isn't really a latin word, they didn't use the letter 'J' so it is really Iuventus, which is in the nominative case (subject of the sentence), and it means youth or adolescence.

    Stultorum is a latin derivation of the word stultus, stulti which means fool. The "orum" ending places it in the genative case, used (most frequently) to show possesion. Hence of fools.

    Magister literally means teacher or schoolmaster. It is in the Nominative case as well.

    There is an implied transitive verb such as "is" which would require the nominative case on both sides of the verb. Hence we have: "Youth is the teacher of fools".

    Doc : Rest in peace!

    To end the conversation Doc Holiday throws the previous warning back into Ringo's face. Doc tells him to rest in peace, or to die, because Ringo is unaware of the danger that Doc presents.

    The conversation, at first, does not seem to flow well, but there are several hidden meanings and ideas being passed back and forth. The use of these Latin phrases carries a lot of symbolism and meaning in the way they were used here. Now you know what the phrases translate, so go watch it again, this time with the knowledge of what they say so you can find the hidden implications of their conversation.
     
    #109
  10. ProBoxingInsidr Black Belt

    ProBoxingInsidr
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    7,368
    Likes Received:
    3,553
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    i said in my first or second post in this thread that i gave them a pass. the movie was very loosely based on reality. usually i hate that, but the movie was so fun they got away with it. very few of the lawmen back in those days were great people. earp was no exception
     
    #110
  11. ClubFoot Therapy can be a good thing; it can be therapeutic

    ClubFoot
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Messages:
    4,231
    Likes Received:
    2,544
    Id rather watch a dog turd with a cowboy hat on it for 2 hours than watch that plank of wood Costner shooting guns and not being able to act his way out of a wet paper bag.
     
    #111
  12. Pliny Pete Puts Butts In Seats

    Pliny Pete
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Messages:
    12,331
    Likes Received:
    15,566
    Location:
    Taco Truck On The Corner

    Michael J Fox started the gunfight?
    Thats something they dont teach ya in the history books
     
    #112
    chickenluver and BisexualMMA like this.
  13. Seraldo Babalu Blue Belt

    Seraldo Babalu
    Joined:
    May 28, 2016
    Messages:
    880
    Likes Received:
    1,630
    Tombstone in this ho'
     
    #113
  14. sickc0d3r Brown Belt

    sickc0d3r
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,835
    Likes Received:
    2,269
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    LOL. I'm such an idiot.
     
    #114
    chickenluver likes this.
  15. BisexualMMA Don't Put My Name in the Name of Steroids!

    BisexualMMA
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    27,999
    Likes Received:
    39,553
    Location:
    Super Fight League Corporate HQ


    Usually you hear about things like Pacino and DeNiro pushing each other to new levels, but here you got Val Kilmer and Michael Biehn getting the best out of each other in a scene.

    It's a shame George P. Cosmatos didn't direct more films. For an action director, he got well above-average performances out of his cast. Cobra was arguably Brian Thompson's best performance, Rambo 2 was arguably Charles Napier's and maybe even Steven Berkoff's (come at me, Barry Lyndon Juggalos).

    I sometimes forget Leviathan was even a movie, but it was actually a pretty effective horror and maybe the closest facsimile I have seen to John Carpenter's "The Thing."
     
    #115
    Strychnine likes this.
  16. CrazyN8 Custom Title

    CrazyN8
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    3,892
    Likes Received:
    953
    Tombstone via 7 second walk off KO. Why just an hour ago I told someone in the war room not to crawfish....stoppped shy of telling him to drill that ole devil in the ass.
     
    #116
  17. FyrFytr998 Red Belt

    FyrFytr998
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2007
    Messages:
    8,006
    Likes Received:
    8,186
    Location:
    2nd Floor Basement
    [​IMG]
     
    #117
  18. fonzob1 Black Belt

    fonzob1
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2014
    Messages:
    6,101
    Likes Received:
    4,203
    While Kevin Costner's portrayal of Wyatt Earp is probably historically more accurate, Tombstone was a superior production to Wyatt Earp in every way. There is no comparison.
     
    #118
    shadow_priest_x likes this.
  19. chickenluver Bookmobile Driver

    chickenluver
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2011
    Messages:
    8,036
    Likes Received:
    2,759
    Location:
    The Magical World of Reading
    It reminds me of my early childhood, so I have fond memories attached to VHS, but overall I hate the format. I don't remember watching a movie that was on two tapes, but splitting a movie in two is annoying. Even some DVDs do this for REALLY long movies. Glad we're moving beyond DVD now too.
     
    #119
  20. shadow_priest_x Titanium Belt

    shadow_priest_x
    Joined:
    May 7, 2008
    Messages:
    36,684
    Likes Received:
    20,500
    Location:
    SLC, UT
    I will never hate VHS. I actually put together a small VHS collection a few years ago just to have it and preserve something from that era. I even still have a VCR and occasionally pop a tape in just for the memories.

    And when you say "move on from DVD" you mean move on to Blu-Ray, I agree. If you mean move away from physical formats, I disagree emphatically.
     
    #120

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"