Thoughts on this pyramid? Agree? Disagree?

[nac386]

"these are not isolated incidents- it is a continuum. the attitudes and actions on the bottom reinforce and excuse those higher up. this is systematic.".

First of all, I didn't quote you, so I have no idea why you're responding to me defensively.

Second, what you said is exactly what I said. "Attitudes and actions that reinforce or excuse those higher up" is the creation of the culture they are describing. That is not a sequence of actions, "If you do this, next you'll do that!"

That is what a lot of people here are describing. A sequence of actions. "Hey, I like locker room talk, that doesn't mean I'll rape somebody!" The pyramid does not say you will. That is not what it means.

Who are you disagreeing with? Lol. You made a weirdly defensive post that does not really make sense in context of what I said.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

This is literally exactly what I said. "Attitudes and actions that reinforce or excuse those higher up" is the creation of the culture they are describing. That is not a sequence of actions, "If you do this, next you'll do that!"

That is what a lot of people here are describing. A sequence of actions. "Hey, I like locker room talk, that doesn't mean I'll rape somebody!" The pyramid does not say you will. That is not what it means.

Who are you disagreeing with? Lol. You made a weirdly defensive post that does not really make sense in context of what I said.

I think people get defensive because the pyramid is ridiculous and a little offensive.
Being placed on a rape culture spectrum because of expressing as subjective a sentiment as "boys will be boys" is unlikely to lead to constructive conversation.

Your popping in to tell people that they don't understand the pyramid is likely to rub some the wrong way.

That all said, I don't actually think this pyramid warrants a thread. There's not much to be said about it that doesn't dismiss it.

 

[klnOmega]

Binge drinking with strangers doesn't contribute at all?

 

[klnOmega]

Gang rape topping murder? Come on.

I'd rather be murdered than gang raped.

But its weird that murder is on there at all. Its not rape. Why not include credit car theft, or bank fraud if we are just throwing random crimes up there?

 

[Fawlty]

The behaviors in the yellow and orange seem to have been de-normalized pretty effectively in my lifetime. But don't take away the rape jokes; you'll only make them funnier.

 

[nac386]

I think people get defensive because the pyramid is ridiculous and a little offensive.
Being placed on a rape culture spectrum because of expressing as subjective a sentiment as "boys will be boys" is unlikely to lead to constructive conversation.

Your popping in to tell people that they don't understand the pyramid is likely to rub some the wrong way.

That all said, I don't actually think this pyramid warrants a thread. There's not much to be said about it that doesn't dismiss it.

Well, if they don't understand it then they don't understand it. That's not really my fault for pointing it out. The conversation cannot begin in any productive way if we start by misinterpreting the initial subject. We have to be honest from the start.

"Boys will be boys" in this context is not used to describe two boys getting into some mischief in the back yard, or breaking something while rough housing in the living rooms. In this context, they are referring to using "boys will be boys" to excuse inappropriate sexual behavior like cat-calling or making sexually inappropriate advances to girls.

 

[WiolentOne]

Gang rape topping murder? Come on.

Murder is kinda hard to compare to anything else due to the finality of the event.

But gang rape is fucking horrific. Its a sadistic act that is extremely traumatic for the victim with often lifelong mental consequences. Its right up there with murder.

But some people can make a good case for murder in certain circumstances (not me tho, because that would be technically against the rules and I don't break rules) . I mean if someone tracked down a pedo and murdered him ...would you care? I wouldn't.

Or ever hear of Joe Horn?

So with murder context matters.

While gang rape is always wrong.

 

[nac386]

The pyramid is literally saying "the bottom tier stuff normalizes the top tier stuff", which is ridiculous.

People convicted of rape in the United States serve the second longest average sentence in prison, only behind homicide. Someone catcalling or "non-sexual unwanted touching" doesn't normalize gang bangs and murder. It's a ridiculous argument to make that hinges on the idea that we live in a "rape culture". We don't.

That is a perfectly reasonable stance to take.

I'm just pointing out that the stance you're taking in this post, is not your initial stance. Your initial stance included the statement, "If I catcall a woman tomorrow, I won't rape a woman by next year." That statement was not related to the pyramid at all.

 

[b-hop]

I am currently in the third row.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

Well, if they don't understand it then they don't understand it. That's not really my fault for pointing it out. The conversation cannot begin in any productive way if we start by misinterpreting the initial subject. We have to be honest from the start.

Again, it is a ridiculous pyramid and it's unlikely to spawn a serious productive conversation because... well, the only people who are likely to take it seriously are those it's offended. 'Cos it's stupid.

I doubt anyone failed to understand the pyramid, I think they were just making fun of it without being particular, because, again, this is not the sort of thing that should be taken seriously.

"Boys will be boys" in this context is not used to describe two boys getting into some mischief in the back yard, or breaking something while rough housing in the living rooms. In this context, they are referring to using "boys will be boys" to excuse inappropriate sexual behavior like cat-calling or making sexually inappropriate advances to girls.

I know. And as I said, it's subjective.
Outside of violence, the appropriateness of a sexual advance is largely determined by the individual on the receiving end of the sexual advance and, to an extent, the setting.

 

[BEER]

That is a perfectly reasonable stance to take.

I'm just pointing out that the stance you're taking in this post, is not your initial stance. Your initial stance included the statement, "If I catcall a woman tomorrow, I won't rape a woman by next year." That statement was not related to the pyramid at all.

In the same post, I also spun a different scenario, covering multiple bases on that ridiculous pyramid. Most of the behavior at the bottom of the pyramid does nothing to "normalize" the behavior at the top of the pyramid.

 

[tkotom]

Plenty of truth to that pyramid. Lots of bullshit too.

My main issue with it is that this over-sissification of society is deliberately pushed to create a generation of weaklings and timid betas.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

You think mobs stopped taking to the streets to kill alleged rapists because feminists coined the term "toxic masculinity"? That is what it seems like you've implied here.

Also, there have been multiple cases of fathers or husbands beating rapists to death or close to it. I never once, ever, heard anybody make a claim that the father or husband was displaying toxic masculinity by doing so.

Can you tell us where you got any of these ideas?

I don't think males stopped using violence to stand up for women simply because of the toxic masculinity rhetoric. It has been years of feminists and unstable women convincing young boys that they are inherently evil because they were born with a penis.

People justifiably fighting back against Muslim and North African migrant sexual predators is not just considered toxic masculinity. It is also called racism, xenophbia, bigotry and white supremacy by pathetic progressives.

Men are being handcuffed in multiple ways. The progressives pushing an unreasonable multiculturalism agenda and the feminists aggressively demonizing males from a young age.

Feminism is Cancer:

 

[snakedafunky]

I see it like this. Whatever would get me into a fight if I see someone doing it to my wife should be considered wrong.
Like Whistling is not that bad. Unless of course it happens to my wife when I am right there. That's how women feel about it all the time.

So unless you are fine with someone doing it to your wife/girlfriend right in front of you. You shouldn't be fine with someone doing it to other women.
Some exception to the rule of course. But that's the general rule fro not being an asshole.

 

[RhinoRush]

That pyramid shows an utter lack of understanding of rape and it's causes. The muslim world has a rape culture, the western world does not. Their rape culture is built on the foundation that women are second class citizens who don't deserve human rights or human decency. And that the victim of rape is punished by torture, death and ostracism.

Anyone who thinks the west has a rape problem probably hasn't travelled that much. Getting your feelings hurt isn't rape. Getting raped is.

 

[Broken arrow]

If there’s a hint of anti-semitism they will shut this thread down

 

[RhinoRush]

I see it like this. Whatever would get me into a fight if I see someone doing it to my wife should be considered wrong.
Like Whistling is not that bad. Unless of course it happens to my wife when I am right there. That's how women feel about it all the time.

So unless you are fine with someone doing it to your wife/girlfriend right in front of you. You shouldn't be fine with someone doing it to other women.
Some exception to the rule of course. But that's the general rule fro not being an asshole.

Right. And in a rape culture, an actual rape culture, that is, if any of that shit happened to your wife, she'd be tried in a court of law, convicted of inciting it and stoned to death. That's what a rape culture is.

 

[Rod1]

Ill put murder above gang rape.

 

[TheGreatA]

Going back to puritanical conservative values is for the best.

 

[TheGreatA]

Murder is kinda hard to compare to anything else due to the finality of the event.

But gang rape is fucking horrific. Its a sadistic act that is extremely traumatic for the victim with often lifelong mental consequences. Its right up there with murder.

But some people can make a good case for murder in certain circumstances (not me tho, because that would be technically against the rules and I don't break rules) . I mean if someone tracked down a pedo and murdered him ...would you care? I wouldn't.

Or ever hear of Joe Horn?

So with murder context matters.

While gang rape is always wrong.

Americans don't seem to mind gang-rape if it happens on men in prison.