The official thread of Yi Long - questions

[heavenly kaghan]

Are there other versions of dim mak?

Yes, you can attack with lots of other places, fingers, palm, feet, grips. Eagle claw for example, applies gripping for dim mak foremost. But we can't think in MMA terms and break dim mak into individual moves. The general answer for whether dim mak can work in MMA is no. You cannot view moves independent from the whole system. Take Eagle claw for instance, most of Dim mak moves are only applied under the premise that you are controlling the opponent with trappings and grips at the wrist. MMA gloves, while been much more maneuverable than boxing gloves, is still a big hindrance to any traditional MA gripping (most of which are at the wrist) and trapping styles to the degree that they are rendered inapplicable. Much of traditional MA strikings on weak points are also based on relaxed hands tensing up at the moment of strike, which is rendered powerless by combat sport gloves of any sort (gloves not only softens your knuckles, but it also structures your hand for specific types of punching, this protects your hand in boxing style fights at the expense of other types of strikes), the fact that gloves also soften hard and sharp parts of your hands which are used to strike soft points only makes it worse.

 

[Snubnoze707]

 

[AbeRudder]

what the hell is a dim mak?

 

[heavenly kaghan]

Pressure points. No, I don't mean the shit you see in movies. I'm talking about very obvious points like these: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/7f/a9/f2/7fa9f27287c3d966809a649018fa1289.jpg

One of eagle claw's tactics is to grip these points immediately to disable the opponent's arm for a strike set up. They train their fingers and grips a lot.

 

[Snubnoze707]

I only use eagle claw when in drunken form...

 

[SuperLuigi]

Artist's impression of Broadcast:

 

[Blazeblack]

Are there other versions of dim mak?

Absolutely, some of the most trendy versions even include rain dances and dousing rods.

 

[Broadcast]

Artist's impression of Broadcast

This was freaky, bro! I don"t laugh.

 

[heavenly kaghan]

I only use eagle claw when in drunken form...

Absolutely, some of the most trendy versions even include rain dances and dousing rods.

What do we have here? More mockings of TCMA from guys who never trained in them? It really makes people who actually understand the system beyond the superficial want to facepalm. That aside, there are no evidence Yi Long even knows TCMA beyond the absolute superficial, if even that. TCMA kicks are designed with shoes on, and over 80% of the hand attacks all revolves around trappings and wrist control; strikings are only secondary, but KB is trying to reduce this complicated standup style into a pure "striking" sport. This is like reducing the ground game in MMA to just ground and pound with boxing gloves on, making positioning and control difficult and throw in thick elbow and knee pads too, which makes joint submissions extremely hard to execute. Hence, most of TCMA outside of a few basic strikes becomes useless under KB rulesets or even current MMA ones. Anyone who claims they use TCMA foremost in the ring is full of shit, if they do, they will either get knocked out or take a severe beating the entire round, because they are fighting against guys who are trained only to strike.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Face palm? Don't you mean Buddha's palm?

 

[OngBakBoy]

Face palm? Don't you mean Buddha's palm?

Kung Fu hustle


nice movie

 

[heavenly kaghan]

Face palm? Don't you mean Buddha's palm?

Facepalm. But more nitpickings, there is no real TCMA move called Buddha palm, there is however, something called Lohan fist and obviously, its nothing like what you see in movies.

 

[AbeRudder]

What's the best example of a traditional kung fu style working in a live setting? @heavenly kaghan

 

[OngBakBoy]

What's the best example of a traditional kung fu style working in a live setting? @heavenly kaghan

 

[heavenly kaghan]

What's the best example of a traditional kung fu style working in a live setting? @heavenly kaghan

Do you want examples in street fights or competitions. The former is recorded in newspapers and there are lots of it, but these are prone to be untrustworthy as all street fight records are. For competitions, your best bet is ROC period Leitai matches, which is again recorded in newspapers and Jinwu archives. One thing interesting about early Leitai matches I've read is that many of them actually ends like MMA fights, with one guy on top of another raining down punches, the difference is that they are usually fatal, since they are bare handed, on hard ground, with no referee and no concept of tapping. You just verbally submit and hope the other guy is nice enough to end there, which often they are not. Because of the high fatality, most people who fights leitai usually don't make a career out of it. They usually have one or two fights in their lives much like the early UFC. I'm only aware of one guy who had 20 Leitai fights in his life.

 

[spinningshiz]

Do you want examples in street fights or competitions. The former is recorded in newspapers and there are lots of it, but these are prone to be untrustworthy as all street fight records are. For competitions, your best bet is ROC period Leitai matches, which is again recorded in newspapers and Jinwu archives. One thing interesting about early Leitai matches I've read is that many of them actually ends like MMA fights, with one guy on top of another raining down punches, the difference is that they are usually fatal, since they are bare handed, on hard ground, with no referee and no concept of tapping. You just verbally submit and hope the other guy is nice enough to end there, which often they are not. Because of the high fatality, most people who fights leitai usually don't make a career out of it. They usually have one or two fights in their lives much like the early UFC. I'm only aware of one guy who had 20 Leitai fights in his life.

But if it just ends up going to the ground why not train grappling?

 

[AbeRudder]

I was thinking of a video. Even if it's sparring or a weird rule set. A lot of the lei tai footage that's out there seems pretty sloppy, maybe im watching the wrong stuff.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Dude Kung Fu totally works I read about it in the newspaper. You can't expect to see it in MMA because eye pokes are illegal. If eye pokes were legal all those champs would get destroyed, especially if they allowed small joint manipulations.

 

[Thycidides]

While it is kind of cool to see footage from the 50's that shows some degree of contact , the fighters in those videos might be even more sloppy than Yi Long.

The guy in the yellow gi in the 80's vid could use some more practice. I do like how he keeps catching kicks and throwing his opponent though. I wonder why Sanda / San Shou has not gotten more attention

 

[heavenly kaghan]

I was thinking of a video. Even if it's sparring or a weird rule set. A lot of the lei tai footage that's out there seems pretty sloppy, maybe im watching the wrong stuff.

You are assuming Leitai matches are the same as those in the ROC period, they are not even close to the same ruleset outside of having a ring out. This is an 1980s video, we are talking about Leitai matches during the ROC period 1920s-1930s. There are literally no rules outside of eye gouge and throat and groin shots. Two died in the first Leitai match held in 1928 and dozens were seriously injured. It's much more violent than the first UFC, cause no one actually died there or became a cripple. Matches with little rules exist everywhere in the world. Vale Tudo is nothing unique, its just better known through modern BJJ propagation.
Most open Leitai tournaments are banned by the late 1930s and violent gang fighting and illegal tournaments largely disappeared after the 1950s. Martial arts are only effective depending on the practitioners who keeps it alive and TMA today in general is largely devoid of real practical combat experience, not because its useless. This is why I picked up Sanda.

A well known video, and well known for the fact that none of these guys had over a few months training. Sloppy is an understatement, they are clueless what they are doing. It's like the Baixin (commoner) KB fights we have in early Wu Linfeng with noobs like Wang Zhiliang fighting in KB after only a few months of training:

http://baidu.ku6.com/watch/07526020942443082248.html?&recFrom=site&list=2


Are you going to generalize that KB is sloppy just from this video?

Not traditional Chinese martial arts, this is early Sanda, everything from the PRC is Sanda; TCMA is largely dead there as an applied art. Sanda and Shuaijiao are independent sports from most mainstream traditional Chinese martial arts. They rely on very different move sequences and principles in generating power, especially the former.