The Forward: Richard Spencer Might Be The Worst Person In America. But He’s Right About Israel

[Goonerview]

Where do people like this come from? I mean that Spencer guy talks about white supremacy he doesn't even look like an Aryan to me.
Definitely, have to see some Aryan certificate first.
And he happens to be a race traitor as well because he is married to a Slav anyway.

Spencer, Israeli and Palestinian terrorists all like talking shit about each other or kill each other.
When at the end of the day they would all be standing next to each other on a train to Auschwitz so they probably have more in common than they think. Instead of hating and killing each other they should be united in their inferiority.

He's a white nationalist. Not a supremacist.

 

[Goonerview]

Yeah it is basically a universal group dynamic. Corporations try to build these sorts of cultures into their fabric to take advantage of it as well.

Yes, tribalism is natural human behavior. People naturally want to group together, especially if they share familiar things.

Trying to put morals of "good or bad" on it, like people in this thread, is not the point.

 

[snakedafunky]

He's a white nationalist. Not a supremacist.

Same thing. Why would you be in favor of a white nation if you don't think a white nation will be superior?
White nationalist is just a word people that don't have the balls to come out and say what they really think.

 

[fallable]

Yes, tribalism is natural human behavior. People naturally want to group together, especially if they share familiar things.

Trying to put morals of "good or bad" on it, like people in this thread, is not the point.

Preference is not bigotry, nor is voluntary association or freedom of association. Although some are trying to redefine them as such.

 

[FacePunch]

Tribalism as a social system is generally a family based structure. A few extended families or clans band together. Over time it may grow to some extent, but extended familial relationships remain key.

Nationalism as a social system usually involves the uniting of disparate clouds based on share language and culture. While there is often, indeed almost always, a strong ethnic component, that is not defined by direct familial relations so much as very broad ethnic characteristics and again by culture.

Tribalism is generally marked by exclusivism. Nationalism, contrary to conventional wisdom, is much more inclusive. What nationalism does is break down a lot of petty distinctions, including tribalism specifically, so that much larger groups of people can be united.

I disagree. Nationalism is exclusionary to everyone outside your group - It is a form of tribalism just like religion, political parties, sports hooliganism, bloods and crips, fraternities on campuses, and on and on. Humans like to belong to a group, and they cling to these identities.

We're long, long past the definition of tribalism only applying to pancake-tittied indigenous groups on the cover of National Geographic.

 

[lalaland]

Pretty dumb article.

The writer is redefining Zionism to mean Jewish supremacy. That is not accurate.

The writer is right that Israel should do more to try to stop the far right assholes in Israel.

Picture this:

1) UKIP proclaims that Britain is a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant (WASP) state.
2) UKIP declares that WASPs must remain the ethnic super majority in Britain.
3) UKIP proposes that Britain severly limits non-WASP immigration while encouraging re-migration of the WASP diaspora.

Do you think the word 'supremacy' might be uttered by the left and the mainstream right?

 

[FrankensteinMMA]

This. Richard Spencer is more like a "white zionist", "white nationalist", as opposed to a white "supremacist".

From what I've seen, he is not even saying white people are superior to everyone else. He just rejects diversity and wants a white ethno-state ... like Israel is for Jews.

Saying blacks have an average i.q. of 70 and other comparisons to nonwhites as being geneticaly below whites isnt racist? Ok.

 

[IDL]

Saying blacks have an average i.q. of 70 and other comparisons to nonwhites as being geneticaly below whites isnt racist? Ok.

I'm pretty sure those arguments always put Asians ahead of whites, as well as Ashkenazi Jews ahead. So it isn't a "whites are superior to non-whites' argument in the first place. It may be racist to make those kinds of arguments, but if anything it is an Asian and Ashkenazi supremacist argument.

 

[jeffk]

A rebuttal in the forward.

I would have changed some things but she gets the first point right.

http://forward.com/opinion/380485/5-reasons-richard-spencer-is-wrong-about-israel/

 

[FrankensteinMMA]

He's a white nationalist. Not a supremacist.

The difference?

One wants to enslave. The other one doesnt.

Both think they are better than eveyone else.

 

[FrankensteinMMA]

I'm pretty sure those arguments always put Asians ahead of whites, as well as Ashkenazi Jews ahead. So it isn't a "whites are superior to non-whites' argument in the first place. It may be racist to make those kinds of arguments, but if anything it is an Asian and Ashkenazi supremacist argument.

1. It gives them legitimacy.

2. When you probe them about asians being smarter they reveal that "its not what it appears to be" and then go on ranting how asians are not creative and their low testosterone levels prohibits any real use of their brains etc.

 

[IDL]

1. It gives them legitimacy.

2. When you probe them about asians being smarter they reveal that "its not what it appears to be" and then go on ranting how asians are not creative and their low testosterone levels prohibits any real use of their brains etc.

Well, I am only familiar with the arguments around IQ, which is what I was addressing. I'm sure some people have all sorts of opinions around all sorts of other things.

I just think that arguing that other groups are smarter than yours, is not really a supremacist argument.

Which of course doesn't mean there is no 'my group is better than your group' phenomenon, which occurs in any group imaginable.

 

[Goonerview]

The difference?

One wants to enslave. The other one doesnt.

Both think they are better than eveyone else.

A nationalist just loves their country and values.

Do all Israeli citizens think that Jews are better than everyone else.

Richard Spencer basically wants to create a "White Israel".

 

[Goonerview]

It seems to me that leftists WANT Richard Spencer to be a moustache twirling NAZI.

Just so they have someone to complain about and be made feel a victim from.

 

[IDL]

It seems to me that leftists WANT Richard Spencer to be a moustache twirling NAZI.

Just so they have someone to complain about and be made feel a victim from.

He is a larger than life character

 

[Goonerview]

He is a larger than life character

There is a demand from the left for NAZIs.

The left want NAZIs. They WANT feel like victims and complain. They wish there were more NAZIs and that Spencer was as extreme as they think he is.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Zionism is ethno-nationalism. It is a parallel to white nationalism. Just a different group.

To be fair, white nationalism comes from a logical line of slavery and genocide. Herzl's writings that made Zionism did not rely upon violence.

 

[snakedafunky]

A nationalist just loves their country and values.

Do all Israeli citizens think that Jews are better than everyone else.

Richard Spencer basically wants to create a "White Israel".

But a white nationalist would want their country only to be "white". Which would be problematic in the US because first the term "white" isn't 100% defined.
And also what would happen with all the Americans that aren't white? At the very least you would have to take most of their rights away so that they can't "destroy" the "white" values.

It can't really be compared to Israel because you can be Jewish without being part of any "pure" Jewish race.
For example, you could have a Jewish mother and a black father and are still considered Jewish. That doesn't work with white people.

 

[Goonerview]

But a white nationalist would want their country only to be "white". Which would be problematic in the US because first the term "white" isn't 100% defined.
And also what would happen with all the Americans that aren't white? At the very least you would have to take most of their rights away so that they can't "destroy" the "white" values.

It can't really be compared to Israel because you can be Jewish without being part of any "pure" Jewish race.
For example, you could have a Jewish mother and a black father and are still considered Jewish. That doesn't work with white people.

Israel actually does blood tests to determine how Jewish you are if you want to become a citizen. If you are not Jewish enough, you can't become a citizen.

I'm sure a "white national state" would have similar rules for citizenship. If it were made.

I remember hearing that Israel even secretly sterilized minorities to keep the gene pool pure.

 

[IDL]

To be fair, white nationalism comes from a logical line of slavery and genocide. Herzl's writings that made Zionism did not rely upon violence.

I don't think it comes from those logical lines, whatever that means. Ethno-nationalism a generic concept. I am also unfamiliar with the argument by any WN that they need or want genocide and slavery, but it is not impossible that this argument is out there. I just have not seen it.

You could probably make a better case that Israel comes from the 'logical lines' of fulfilling a prophecy of world dominion, according to Jewish prophecy of the return of the Jewish King to rule all others. That would be inherently supremacist.