So...Kelvin is going to destroy Bisping

[Jawth]

Ok so Luke trying to "look cool" means that Bisping's win deserves less credit somehow?

Let me ask you a question... did you ever consider Weidman to be a legit MW champion? And if your answer is yes, did you not think his victories came from (firstly) taking advantage of Silva's overconfidence and (secondly) slightly by fluke when AS broke his leg. If your answer is no... then you hold no respect for the line of MW champions since Weidman. Which one is it?

Serra went for the instant re-match. Different time... different division... different context... ultimately irrelevant. Also on this point... do you consider JDS a legit champion? Or lucky fluke champion... I'm interested please let me know.

Yeah I know that old frail senior citizen Dan Henderson who just KOd Hector Lombard only 3 months prior. And lamped Bisping with the same shot that would knockout a horse and Bisping ate it and came back to win.

By legit champion do you mean I despute the fact he deserved to wear the belt? No, not until he blatantly ducked the real contenders in search of easier fights. You can make an argument that JDS was never the best either, but he still defended against the most deserving contender they gave him.

Serra was not supposed to have an instant rematch, he was going to fight Matt. Injury made GSP vs. Hughes and he fought the winner. He didnt try to beat up Gracie or something. He manned the fuck up and took a hard fight like a true champion should and lost. Which is what would have happened if Mike fought Romero, Jacare, Weidman, Rockhold, even Brunson.

Instead he fought an old man with a losing record in his last ten, propped up by you a decent win over Lombard, currently on a four fight losing streak, one of which was to USADA Hendricks.

Next he ducked again to fight a man who was smaller, coming out of retirement and injury, and managed to become the first man he finished in eight years, and the first he submitted in ten years.

He absolutely would have been crushed by the true elite of the division, ran away then still got finished. He gets props for stepping up here but will still lose this fight.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

You mean when kelvin slip?

that was minor. and no, i wasn't talking about that.

it was a great 90 seconds. they went toe to toe for quite a bit of it. Kelvin's best moments were about 10 seconds of awesome head movement though, and Weidman not only got the better of most of the 90 minutes, he landed solidly at least 6 or 8 shots. Weidman ate a few, but wasn't visibly impacted at all. Kelvin definitely was.

it's arguable that Kelvin was already tired after round 2, but if not, he was pretty much done after that 90 seconds. so when Weidman then got the next takedown, it was over very fast.

I certainly like Kelvin more than Weidman. but i just watched the fight after someone else used the term "Kelvin dominated Chris". so i checked. and he not only didn't dominate the standup, he really didn't even get the better of him. except the last 15 seconds of round 1.

you are right though that much of the standup battle - over half - was a feeling out. Kelvin patiently waiting for a counter v Chris doing lots of little work.

anyway, believe me or not i don't care. i just happened to have a few days left on FightPass before cancelling it 29 days after the Cowboy v Till fight, and a slow day at work. my memory is fresher than yours.

now i'm going to watch a Ruas fight. cheers.

 

[12ga.]

Never bet against Short Notice Bisping he could beat Dick Pills Jon.

 

[NotSoSure]

Ok great. So essentially you hold no respect for any of the lineal MW champs. Why do you even watch UFC I wonder?

Not Bisping and GSP.

 

[Pumphrey94]

I think Bisping wins this fight but Kelvin does have big power

 

[10mm]

Kelvin with the rd 3 TKO

 

[LargeMammal]

By legit champion do you mean I despute the fact he deserved to wear the belt? No, not until he blatantly ducked the real contenders in search of easier fights. You can make an argument that JDS was never the best either, but he still defended against the most deserving contender they gave him.

Serra was not supposed to have an instant rematch, he was going to fight Matt. Injury made GSP vs. Hughes and he fought the winner. He didnt try to beat up Gracie or something. He manned the fuck up and took a hard fight like a true champion should and lost. Which is what would have happened if Mike fought Romero, Jacare, Weidman, Rockhold, even Brunson.

Instead he fought an old man with a losing record in his last ten, propped up by you a decent win over Lombard, currently on a four fight losing streak, one of which was to USADA Hendricks.

Next he ducked again to fight a man who was smaller, coming out of retirement and injury, and managed to become the first man he finished in eight years, and the first he submitted in ten years.

He absolutely would have been crushed by the true elite of the division, ran away then still got finished. He gets props for stepping up here but will still lose this fight.

Do you know what as an "old school" Bisping fan I feel I've been defending him longer than my memory will allow. Hence why I have an automatic reaction to defend him. However... I will gladly admit there are many of his actions which I simply cannot defend. These mostly relate to the arrogant and ridiculous persona he adopts for the press pre-fight. I know his attitude is simply engineered to get his opponent riled up, but I often find it awkward & embarassing. To the extent that I feel I have to explain that generally British people are much funnier and wittier than that, and he in no way represents our appetite for good humour.

Along with this point... I simply cannot defend his decision not to fight Romero when he had the chance. I put my hands up there. And in fact, one point I have always iterated when defending Bisping is that he will take any fight. He fought Chael on minimal notice when Chael was considered the guy to beat AS. And he was constantly calling out AS even at a point in his career when he was considered nothing more than journeyman/gatekeeper. I feel the decision not to fight Romero was ridiculous and I cannot dispute that has massively affected his integrity as champion.

I don't however go along with the notion that at the time of Hendo/Bisping II Hendo was some old, poor, frail decrepit man who Bisping took advantage of. Yes Hendo wasn't exactly on a tear at the time, but to put things into context... Hendo hasn't strung together more than 4 consecutive wins since his first loss against Wandy back in 2000 and yet STILL when he was pegged as 205 no.1 contender (only 3 or 4 years ago), many on this very forum predicted he would KO Jon Jones! Yes... remember? Many predicated Hendo (who now is considered a frail old man) would knockout one of the p4p best fighters the UFC has seen, and certainly the most dominant champion the 205 division has ever seen. So people quickly change their tune from backing Hendo to KO Jon Jones to excusing his loss to Bisping because he's an ancient frail old man.

And finally.... just purely to play devil's advocate here. You claim Bisping refused to fight the best challengers and instead opted to fight GSP. Do you seriously think that Bisping assumed GSP was no threat to him? A lesser threat than the muscle-bound Romero who's obviously poor cardio was then clearly exposed by Rob Whittaker. Contrary to popular opinion, I am not actually convinced that Bisping saw the GSP fight as an easy alternative to any of the available MW contenders.

 

[LargeMammal]

Not Bisping and GSP.

Oh right that makes perfect sense...

So just for clarity here... do you consider Rockhold to be the true lineal champ?

Or maybe you still thinks its Anderson? Or I guess it's also plausible that you think Dave Menne was never fairly beat. Maybe he is the true linear champion... who knows.

If only there was a clear way to determine who the true champion was. Like... I don't know... a 1st round KO or something?

 

[Bartinho]

Both fighters at a crossroads, Bisping at his age on the downside, and Kelvin still improving. The loser takes a big hit in his stock in the MW division. Bisping +120, Gastelum -161. I think Bisping gets stopped in rd 3.

 

[Jawth]

Do you know what as an "old school" Bisping fan I feel I've been defending him longer than my memory will allow. Hence why I have an automatic reaction to defend him. However... I will gladly admit there are many of his actions which I simply cannot defend. These mostly relate to the arrogant and ridiculous persona he adopts for the press pre-fight. I know his attitude is simply engineered to get his opponent riled up, but I often find it awkward & embarassing. To the extent that I feel I have to explain that generally British people are much funnier and wittier than that, and he in no way represents our appetite for good humour.

Along with this point... I simply cannot defend his decision not to fight Romero when he had the chance. I put my hands up there. And in fact, one point I have always iterated when defending Bisping is that he will take any fight. He fought Chael on minimal notice when Chael was considered the guy to beat AS. And he was constantly calling out AS even at a point in his career when he was considered nothing more than journeyman/gatekeeper. I feel the decision not to fight Romero was ridiculous and I cannot dispute that has massively affected his integrity as champion.

I don't however go along with the notion that at the time of Hendo/Bisping II Hendo was some old, poor, frail decrepit man who Bisping took advantage of. Yes Hendo wasn't exactly on a tear at the time, but to put things into context... Hendo hasn't strung together more than 4 consecutive wins since his first loss against Wandy back in 2000 and yet STILL when he was pegged as 205 no.1 contender (only 3 or 4 years ago), many on this very forum predicted he would KO Jon Jones! Yes... remember? Many predicated Hendo (who now is considered a frail old man) would knockout one of the p4p best fighters the UFC has seen, and certainly the most dominant champion the 205 division has ever seen. So people quickly change their tune from backing Hendo to KO Jon Jones to excusing his loss to Bisping because he's an ancient frail old man.

And finally.... just purely to play devil's advocate here. You claim Bisping refused to fight the best challengers and instead opted to fight GSP. Do you seriously think that Bisping assumed GSP was no threat to him? A lesser threat than the muscle-bound Romero who's obviously poor cardio was then clearly exposed by Rob Whittaker. Contrary to popular opinion, I am not actually convinced that Bisping saw the GSP fight as an easy alternative to any of the available MW contenders.

There was a five year gap in between when Hendo was the #1 contender at LHW and his title fight with Bisping. Dan got older, slower, worse cardio, and more predicable in that timeframe. He was beaten rather easily by Vitor, Mousasi, and Cormier. I dont like shitting on Hendo, as he is one of my favorite fighters, but he was nowhere near the top of the division when he fought Bisping the second time. Even his famous chin had finally cracked, and he had started taking ko losses. Its not just Romero he ducked, it was EVERYONE in favor of Hendo's ghost.

Yes, i seriously think Bisping thought a smaller retired and twice knee surgery GSP was significantly easier than Romero, Jacare, Whittaker, Rockhold, Weidman, or Mousasi.

 

[VERBAL-FEDOR]

The only reason Weidman beat Kelvin is because he panic wrestled him after being KO'd mid air. Weidman looked atleast 2 weight classes bigger than Kelvin

Bisping does not have the size Weidman does, they're going to be boxing and Kelvin is going to lay Bisping out.

 

[wompuscatwilly]

I think Kelvin KO's him rather easily.

 

[Lay N Pray 101]

Bisping beats Weidman. That is where your argument falls apart. Bisping hasn't declined enough to give Fatselum the win.

"Bisping beats Weidman"???

What? Weidman is tailored to beat Bisping.

 

[Frankie Baby!]

Is that so buddeh?

 

[NotSoSure]

Oh right that makes perfect sense...

So just for clarity here... do you consider Rockhold to be the true lineal champ?

Or maybe you still thinks its Anderson? Or I guess it's also plausible that you think Dave Menne was never fairly beat. Maybe he is the true linear champion... who knows.

If only there was a clear way to determine who the true champion was. Like... I don't know... a 1st round KO or something?

Rockhold f'd up.

He mauls the entire division.

 

[LargeMammal]

There was a five year gap in between when Hendo was the #1 contender at LHW and his title fight with Bisping.

So at the time of being #1 contender he was still 42 years old and even then didn't hold a particularly consistent record. Just a recent impressive KO vs Fedor and an entertaining (yet close) UD win over Shogun. And even at 42, which is very old for a top tier athlete, many on these very forums predicted he would KO Jon Jones. No one seemed to mention his age as a factor as far as I can remember. Ok there was a 5 year gap between then and the 2nd Bisping fight, but 42 is still a grand old age for a title contender.

He was beaten rather easily by Vitor, Mousasi, and Cormier. I dont like shitting on Hendo, as he is one of my favorite fighters, but he was nowhere near the top of the division when he fought Bisping the second time. Even his famous chin had finally cracked, and he had started taking ko losses. Its not just Romero he ducked, it was EVERYONE in favor of Hendo's ghost.

Who wasn't beaten easily by Vitor at that time? Dude was a jacked up human war path at the time. Wiped the floor with both Bisping & Rockhold too.
Also, Cormier? Hendo was totally outsized in that fight. It was like watching a grown man playing WWE with his 5 year old kid.

Even so, as I said I do admit that Bisping refusing to fight other rightful challengers was embarassing and should never have happened. I just don't accept that he considered Hendo to be an easy alternative. Especially given the fact that he had previously suffered one of the most famous KOs in UFC history at his hands. And Bisping clearly has a questionable chin. I actually thought that was a very bad match-up for Bisping style wise, but he came through.

Yes, i seriously think Bisping thought a smaller retired and twice knee surgery GSP was significantly easier than Romero, Jacare, Whittaker, Rockhold, Weidman, or Mousasi.

Yeah fair enough

 

[LargeMammal]

Rockhold f'd up.

He mauls the entire division.

Cool.

Good job Rockhold. Because you lost by KO, no MW champ can ever be considered legitimate in this man's eyes.

In fact, I think we should just shut the MW division down now because there's clearly no point in anyone competing there.

 

[NotSoSure]

Cool.

Good job Rockhold. Because you lost by KO, no MW champ can ever be considered legitimate in this man's eyes.

In fact, I think we should just shut the MW division down now because there's clearly no point in anyone competing there.

Not since the title became a joke in bisping's hands. A defence against a retiree, a gift shot to another retiree who now holds the title and never fought a legit MW.

So......it is a fucking joke.

You know Rockhold tools all these fools: that loss was a fluke.

 

[Jawth]

So at the time of being #1 contender he was still 42 years old and even then didn't hold a particularly consistent record. Just a recent impressive KO vs Fedor and an entertaining (yet close) UD win over Shogun. And even at 42, which is very old for a top tier athlete, many on these very forums predicted he would KO Jon Jones. No one seemed to mention his age as a factor as far as I can remember. Ok there was a 5 year gap between then and the 2nd Bisping fight, but 42 is still a grand old age for a title contender.



Who wasn't beaten easily by Vitor at that time? Dude was a jacked up human war path at the time. Wiped the floor with both Bisping & Rockhold too.
Also, Cormier? Hendo was totally outsized in that fight. It was like watching a grown man playing WWE with his 5 year old kid.

Even so, as I said I do admit that Bisping refusing to fight other rightful challengers was embarassing and should never have happened. I just don't accept that he considered Hendo to be an easy alternative. Especially given the fact that he had previously suffered one of the most famous KOs in UFC history at his hands. And Bisping clearly has a questionable chin. I actually thought that was a very bad match-up for Bisping style wise, but he came through.

I really dont like shitting on Dan but dude he lost badly to post TRT Vitor too. After he lost to Weidman, and it wasnt competitive. He looked like he shouldnt have been in the ring vs. Moose. Five years in your forties is massive, as was the fact he didnt have TRT himself anymore. In fact, he was 4-6 in his last ten going into that fight, and his most recent wins were over no one spectacular, Boestch and Lombard. Even in the Shogun rematch he looked very bad, he won that fight on toughness, heart and power.

The Dan that beat Fedor and Shogun the first time was nowhere to be found when he fought Bisping for the title. He just wasn't, he was 46, getting knocked out as often than he was winning at all.

And as foryou saying people thought he could KO Jones, that was fan support and nothing more. Jones was a very large betting favorite.

 

[Jawth]

Not since the title became a joke in bisping's hands. A defence against a retiree, a gift shot to another retiree who now holds the title and never fought a legit MW.

So......it is a fucking joke.

You know Rockhold tools all these fools: that loss was a fluke.

I doubt Luke beats Whittaker. He is by no means a lock over Romero either.