Economy Should we provide migrants with housing, welfare, medical, etc..?

[avenue94]

I love arguing with a Democrat that Democrats don't want immigration solely on votes and then has to bring it back to 1840...yep nothings changed since then...Laughing

What makes you think I'm a Democrat or that my views on immigration align with a party platform?

I just asked simple questions that challenge your lack of critical thinking or knowledge of American history. Immigration is about the most American value in the national identity.

Here's a hint: the fact that you can only condescend and blame the media for the GOP's toxicity to immigrants, is a major reason the GOP has struggled so unnecessarily with immigrant voters. I'll ask again. Why did the GOP lose Little Saigon, one of its few immigrant voting bases?

 

[avenue94]

Unskilled immigrants in no way contribute to the general quality of American life but take from it.

I see you don't understand how much more expensive housing and food would be without immigration. There's a reason that during economic downturns the cost of food goes up because Americans don't want to do that kind of backbreaking work for the most part.

 

[Lucas1980]

I see you don't understand how much more expensive housing and food would be without immigration. There's a reason that during economic downturns the cost of food goes up because Americans don't want to do that kind of backbreaking work for the most part.

Americans do back breaking work everyday, have you ever been to construction site..The vast majority of workers are Black and White males breaking their back.

 

[Lucas1980]

What makes you think I'm a Democrat or that my views on immigration align with a party platform?

I just asked simple questions that challenge your lack of critical thinking or knowledge of American history. Immigration is about the most American value in the national identity.

Here's a hint: the fact that you can only condescend and blame the media for the GOP's toxicity to immigrants, is a major reason the GOP has struggled so unnecessarily with immigrant voters. I'll ask again. Why did the GOP lose Little Saigon, one of its few immigrant voting bases?

Democrats by far do a better job of engaging with Vietnamese voters from multiple full time staffers engaging with voters full time and a far better job of investing in Vietnamese-language media as well...Republicans once again dropped the ball and need to work to get these voters back indeed.

 

[avenue94]

Americans do back breaking work everyday, have you ever been to construction site..The vast majority of workers are Black and White males breaking their back.

About a third of construction workers are Hispanic, with an even higher percentage in key markets (aka urban areas). Three-quarters of agricultural labor is foreign born, mostly Hispanic. There's a shortage of labor at current consumer price points (aka what consumers are willing to pay for houses and produce) that can't be replaced with any other labor source. Not unless you as an American citizen are willing to pay noticeably more for food and housing.

 

[avenue94]

Democrats by far do a better job of engaging with Vietnamese voters from multiple full time staffers engaging with voters full time and a far better job of investing in Vietnamese-language media as well...Republicans once again dropped the ball and need to work to get these voters back indeed.

So how is this the media's fault? Does the mythical MSM hire Vietnamese-speaking staffers to get out the vote or something? The GOP lost Vietnamese Americans because they were perceived as racist or coddling racists. The media didn't make that happen, or even exacerbate it. The fact that you have next to no familiarity with the ample polling on this issue is quite clear.

 

[Lucas1980]

About a third of construction workers are Hispanic, with an even higher percentage in key markets (aka urban areas). Three-quarters of agricultural labor is foreign born, mostly Hispanic. There's a shortage of labor at current consumer price points (aka what consumers are willing to pay for houses and produce) that can't be replaced with any other labor source. Not unless you as an American citizen are willing to pay noticeably more for food and housing.

Yeah so the majority of the Construction workers aren't Hispanics and if Hispanics weren't employed in construction their positions would be filled. But yes I would be willing to pay for more for food and housing for a secure border. I'm not against immigration as my Grandparents were both immigrants and came from Ukraine. My Grandpa hated illegal immigrants with a passion though.

 

[Lucas1980]

So how is this the media's fault? Does the mythical MSM hire Vietnamese-speaking staffers to get out the vote or something? The GOP lost Vietnamese Americans because they were perceived as racist or coddling racists. The media didn't make that happen, or even exacerbate it. The fact that you have next to no familiarity with the ample polling on this issue is quite clear.

I do know very little on the polling when it comes to Vietnamese voters I just know that the GOP once had their votes but even places like Orange County lost them. And speaking of coddling racists isn't that one the Democratic party has been doing to the Hispanics and Blacks for decades.

 

[avenue94]

Yeah so the majority of the Construction workers aren't Hispanics and if Hispanics weren't employed in construction their positions would be filled.

They would be filled at a higher purchase price for labor, which will then be passed on to consumers. Construction is already less popular with younger generations, which makes staffing and hiring even harder.

But yes I would be willing to pay for more for food and housing for a secure border.

For food, you'd be willing to pay 20% more overnight? People are scream bloody murder about far more mild inflationary increases. I believe you might be willing to eat that cost, but most Americans would not.

I'm not against immigration as my Grandparents were both immigrants and came from Ukraine. My Grandpa hated illegal immigrants with a passion though.

Your grandpa was a hypocrite, then, which is fine. Nearly every generation of immigrants wants to pull up the ladder after them. What processes did he have to go through for immigration and naturalization?

I do know very little on the polling when it comes to Vietnamese voters I just know that the GOP once had their votes but even places like Orange County lost them. And speaking of coddling racists isn't that one the Democratic party has been doing to the Hispanics and Blacks for decades.

There's quite a bit, it's one of the focuses for polling of Asian Americans in California.

There's not a lot of mystery on which party minorities tend to view as more racist...it's not even close. Again, there is ample polling on this. None of the key Democratic voting blocs is under the impression that the party does not have racist members. They are voting that way because it has substantially less racism in members and platform, and is more aligned with their voting priorities on policies like affirmative action, social safety nets, etc.

 

[Jack V Savage]

They would be filled at a higher purchase price for labor, which will then be passed on to consumers. Construction is already less popular with younger generations, which makes staffing and hiring even harder.

Depends on the specifics. What we find is in a lot of cases, the businesses or services are just not profitable enough to be offered rather than a rise in wages. Like, if the price of tomatoes rose enough, grocery stores just wouldn't sell tomatoes or they'd be inferior quality. Research on the impact of unauthorized immigrants on wages consistently shows a negligible, usually positive, impact. But the bigger impact is usually lower costs and more variety of consumer options.

 

[avenue94]

Depends on the specifics. What we find is in a lot of cases, the businesses or services are just not profitable enough to be offered rather than a rise in wages. Like, if the price of tomatoes rose enough, grocery stores just wouldn't sell tomatoes or they'd be inferior quality. Research on the impact of unauthorized immigrants on wages consistently shows a negligible, usually positive, impact. But the bigger impact is usually lower costs and more variety of consumer options.

Yeah, that's true, it's a tough issue to put an exact price on (my percent was more as a thought experiment). There are producers where, yes, you can shave some of profit margins from the actual owners in some of the more concentrated agricultural markets, but that's obviously going to be the last change the bigger farms want.

And obviously, it wouldn't hit all foods equally since some are more import reliant. If there is a takeaway for Americans in the whole illegal labor vs citizens thing, it's that I'd emphasize that in practice there's almost a labor bar and bifurcation between jobs that illegal immigrants usually fill and jobs citizens usually fill.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Yeah, that's true, it's a tough issue to put an exact price on (my percent was more as a thought experiment). There are producers where, yes, you can shave some of profit margins from the actual owners in some of the more concentrated agricultural markets, but that's obviously going to be the last change the bigger farms want.

And obviously, it wouldn't hit all foods equally since some are more import reliant. If there is a takeaway for Americans in the whole illegal labor vs citizens thing, it's that I'd emphasize that in practice there's almost a labor bar and bifurcation between jobs that illegal immigrants usually fill and jobs citizens usually fill.

I think the way it tends to work is that low-skill immigrant labor tends to be more complementary of higher-skill labor (and thus boost wages through that channel) and more competitive with low-skill native wages, but then poorer natives benefit a lot from the cheaper goods and services and the demand boost so that it's a wash there (so an ambiguous good for higher-skilled natives and a matter of canceling out tradeoffs further down). But, yeah, even within the "low-skill" bucket, there is some bifurcation.

 

[blackheart]

Yeah so the majority of the Construction workers aren't Hispanics and if Hispanics weren't employed in construction their positions would be filled. But yes I would be willing to pay for more for food and housing for a secure border. I'm not against immigration as my Grandparents were both immigrants and came from Ukraine. My Grandpa hated illegal immigrants with a passion though.

"I would be willing to pay more for food and housing for a secure border"
Like I said - Republicans care more about doing violence to groups of people they deem to be inferior, than they actually care about making the country a better place.

Immigrants commit crime at lower rates than US citizens, and they contribute trillions to our GDP. Cope and seethe.

 

[avenue94]

I think the way it tends to work is that low-skill immigrant labor tends to be more complementary of higher-skill labor (and thus boost wages through that channel) and more competitive with low-skill native wages, but then poorer natives benefit a lot from the cheaper goods and services and the demand boost so that it's a wash there (so an ambiguous good for higher-skilled natives and a matter of canceling out tradeoffs further down). But, yeah, even within the "low-skill" bucket, there is some bifurcation.

Yeah, we've probably both mentioned it, but the flip side of illegal immigration being heavily correlated with economic performance of the country is that US does get pretty clear labor shortages during some downturns.

 

[Lucas1980]

"I would be willing to pay more for food and housing for a secure border"
Like I said - Republicans care more about doing violence to groups of people they deem to be inferior, than they actually care about making the country a better place.

Immigrants commit crime at lower rates than US citizens, and they contribute trillions to our GDP. Cope and seethe.

Laughing...easy Susan..No one said anything about "doing" violence to anyone and we were discussing Illegal immigration. But if you invade a country illegally its no different then breaking into someone's home...if you break into my house then yes that results in violence or arrests. Texas is the only state that keeps track of crimes by illegal immigrants so knowing how much crime overall they commit is impossible. Illegal immigration affects the minority communities the most and these are the very same communities that Democrats pander to every voting season.....but are proving they don't really care about by welcoming mass illegal immigration.

 

[Siver!]

'Homelessness is rife in those Dem hellholes!!!'

Also:

'No, don't house the wrong people'

LMAO

 

[blackheart]

Laughing...easy Susan..No one said anything about "doing" violence to anyone and we were discussing Illegal immigration. But if you invade a country illegally its no different then breaking into someone's home...if you break into my house then yes that results in violence or arrests. Texas is the only state that keeps track of crimes by illegal immigrants so knowing how much crime overall they commit is impossible. Illegal immigration affects the minority communities the most and these are the very same communities that Democrats pander to every voting season.....but are proving they don't really care about by welcoming mass illegal immigration.

Yeah I don't expect someone with zero understanding of political theory, and a poor grasp of the English language, to understand what violence means, or to understand the types of violence that are implied in their policies.

Again - you care more about doing violence to groups you don't like, than you care about making the country a better place. You literally just said so openly.

 

[Lucas1980]

B

Yeah I don't expect someone with zero understanding of political theory, and a poor grasp of the English language, to understand what violence means, or to understand the types of violence that are implied in their policies.

Again - you care more about doing violence to groups you don't like, than you care about making the country a better place. You literally just said so openly.

We get it that you don't actually care about the Minority neighborhoods that illegal immigration affects the most...But I wouldn't expect someone that lacks any common sense to understand that's exactly who is the most affected by mass, illegal invasions.

 

[woodguyatl]

No.

Only free anything they should get is a free ride the fuck out of here.

Now if we had an asylum system that wasn’t abused by millions of economic migrants and we only had legitimate refugees I would be open to taking care of them…but illegal migrants of course not and other migrants that aren’t legitimate refugees should only be allowed to be legal here if they can take care of themselves financially.

The first step should be giving them work permits. We have an asylum seeker who has been living with us since July. She has done everything by the book and with legal respresentation at each step. She can get a work permit 6 months after her first court date which is January 2025 which means the the earliest she can legally feed herself is 24 months after entering the US following all the rules and having a legitimate asylum claim.

 

[avenue94]

But if you invade a country illegally its no different then breaking into someone's home...if you break into my house then yes that results in violence or arrests.

So if a hiker pees in the woods, they are automatically a sexual offender? Because the entire country is equivalent to my house of course.

We get it that you don't actually care about the Minority neighborhoods that illegal immigration affects the most...But I wouldn't expect someone that lacks any common sense to understand that's exactly who is the most affected by mass, illegal invasions.

Oh, do tell me how the residents of Huntington Park feel about immigration, illegal or otherwise.