Opinion Should they ban assault weapons?

Should they ban assault weapons?

  • Total voters
    374
Cubo de Sangre said:
You just said the games were shown to increase aggression. You seem to be deflecting from that being a factor by saying it's not the cause. As if there's going to be one magic cause, as opposed to a conglomeration of factors. Ruling out as a factor something shown to increase aggression sounds counter-intuitive.
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Like I said, increased aggression is seen but its measured in things like verbal communication. So you get slightly more aggressive in your tone of voice, not teetering on a homicidal rampage.
You want to focus the argument solely on guns. If you're not in favor of more infringements of that right then what's the point of that line of thinking? Hard not to believe there's a "we need to do something" at the end of that.
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I don't want to focus the argument on guns, I want to avoid talking about BS reasons like video games.
Or are you just deflecting away from video games because you like to pretend to be a killer and don't want to be told you can't? :D
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Are you defending the 2nd amendment because you like having guns and don't want to be told you can't have them? :D
 
Greoric said:
Are you using Japan as an example because you think the lower ownership of guns is a causal reason for their low crime?
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In part but only in combination with their cultural values.
As an addition, if you recognize how "watch lists" have served us for flying, I don't especially place too much faith in their execution.
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True which is why judicial oversight is suggested. I'm okay with no extra gun control but I think that law is an acceptable compromise.
 
HomerThompson said:
Guns are designed to kill people. Cars are designed to get you from one place to another with ease. This argument is laughably bad. I made my point clear.
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And kill just about as many people, yet we've come to view those tragedies as acceptable risks and subsequently, we're not blaming responsible people for the actions of the few...like you seem to be doing with gun owners.
 
jlagman said:
And kill just about as many people, yet we've come to view those tragedies as acceptable risks and subsequently, we're not blaming responsible people for the actions of the few...like you seem to be doing with gun owners.
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If you're required to keep your weapons in a highly secure safe, and you fail to do so resulting in a crime being committed with your gun/s, I think financial penalties are more than reasonable.
 
HomerThompson said:
If you're required to keep your weapons in a highly secure safe, and you fail to do so resulting in a crime being committed with your gun/s, I think financial penalties are more than reasonable.
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And if someone steals your car and runs someone over, should you be responsible for that too?

I'm not against the practice of safe storage, I dislike the criminalization that often accompanies it.
 
HomerThompson said:
Obviously not, that's ridiculous.
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So we agree it's ridiculous to charge the victim of a crime as if they were the criminal themselves. Now can you imagine how much easier it would be to devise a criminal "shopping list" if there was a national registry?
 
jlagman said:
So we agree it's ridiculous to charge the victim of a crime as if they were the criminal themselves. Now can you imagine how much easier it would be to devise a criminal "shopping list" if there was a national registry?
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Of course, but i never advocated for that. That's just the Straw Man position you made up to argue against.
 
Greoric said:
Many of these cases, there are no indicators that can be used to restrict their constitutionally protected right. Why aren't we talking about making these places less of a soft target to begin with though?
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There are indicators in essentially every school shooting. Many of us don't want our children to live in a hard target, like Israel.
 
Fawlty said:
There are indicators in essentially every school shooting. Many of us don't want our children to live in a hard target, like Israel.
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Enough for a probable cause to restrict someone's constitutionally protected right?

But just from a purely pragmatic angle that's focused on a sensationalized problem, do you put more faith in a bureacracy handling 150 million people's "screenings" where 300 million firearms already exist, or at the level of local deterrence... as in dissuading people from targeting the schools/ establishments in the first place?
 
HomerThompson said:
Easy. The gun is tracked, so if it's used in a crime, you know who the rightful owner is, and you can investigate them. This has to be done in concert with making personal resale of firearms illegal, which I am also fine with.

If the owner of the gun has sold it, they are arrested. If the owner of the gun has it stolen and used in a crime, they are heavily fined.

I also want fingerprint ID gun safes to be required of all citizens who own guns.
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Lots of criminals leave their guns behind? Got any stats? I've never heard of that being how a crime is solved in my state where we have registration.

The federal government has no authority to outlaw private transfers. States do. They're illegal in Hawaii. But if the public wants to put that constraint on a guaranteed right then they need to pay the ffl for the transfer or conduct them at the registration sites.

Punishing crime victims for the actions of said criminal is disgusting and you should be ashamed for even suggesting it. Do you have any principles when it comes to justice?

I've long advocated a tax credit for safes purchased. Didn't SCOTUS already say you can't force people to lock them up because they need to be ready and available for the right to self-defense in the home?

But yeah, none of that prevents any mass shootings. Can't see how it makes any noticeable dent in violent crime.


Fawlty said:
Make it harder for crazy people to get guns. Make it easier for crazy kids to be prevented from getting them.
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Great! Most everyone agrees with this and it's already in the law. What needs to be made easier, and agreeable, is how to define and identify "crazy". I'm all ears.


Kafir-kun said:
Like I said, increased aggression is seen but its measured in things like verbal communication. So you get slightly more aggressive in your tone of voice, not teetering on a homicidal rampage.

I don't want to focus the argument on guns, I want to avoid talking about BS reasons like video games.

Are you defending the 2nd amendment because you like having guns and don't want to be told you can't have them? :D
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Yeah, I've addressed that a few times and you refuse to move the conversation forward on that front. No worries.

Then maybe you should have highlighted what you agreed with in her post and we'd be talking about that instead. :D

I defend every part of the Bill of Rights. Vigorously and without compromise. I defend following the Constitution, even when I don't like it. If you think it's just the 2nd then maybe pay more attention in the future.

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/free-speech.3060255/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/civil-forfeiture-and-you.2818235/
 
This is what Antis eventually want to happen with safe storage laws and why I dislike them so much:

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/lor...-the-safe-storage-of-firearms-need-clarifying

"But this is far from the first preposterous safe-storage case. Perhaps the most notorious example of police and Crown overzealousness in enforcing Canada’s existing gun laws is the case of Mike Hargreaves, a former Toronto-area gun-safety instructor and collector. Over the Christmas holidays in 2003, while Mr. Hargreaves was visiting his son in Florida, thieves worked to open the 770 kilogram concrete and steel safe he had had installed in his north Toronto apartment. For nearly two days, burglars used sledgehammers and blowtorches to open the vault, before they could make off with 35 high-powered handguns and rifles worth more than $40,000.

Still, police decided the precautions Mr. Hargreaves had taken to protect his collection were inadequate. They obtained a warrant for his arrest on unsafe storage charges, which forced him to remain in Florida to avoid prosecution."
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Greoric said:
Enough for a probable cause to restrict someone's constitutionally protected right?

But just from a purely pragmatic angle that's focused on a sensationalized problem, do you put more faith in a bureacracy handling 150 million people's "screenings" where 300 million firearms already exist, or at the level of local deterrence... as in dissuading people from targeting the schools/ establishments in the first place?
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Specifically, I don't know how to write the laws we need or how to allocate resources/manpower to this. However, this kid and many others were incredibly obvious problems. Let's start by finding where we let this kid slip through, and patch up that crack however we need to.
 
Fawlty said:
Specifically, I don't know how to write the laws we need or how to allocate resources/manpower to this. However, this kid and many others were incredibly obvious problems. Let's start by finding where we let this kid slip through, and patch up that crack however we need to.
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Fundamentally, I think this comes down to a differing appraisal about both what the government is capable of doing both effectively and potentially maleficently.

Like I said, let's start breaking this bitch up. You and I have no business being presided over by the same governance.
 
Fawlty said:
Specifically, I don't know how to write the laws we need or how to allocate resources/manpower to this. However, this kid and many others were incredibly obvious problems. Let's start by finding where we let this kid slip through, and patch up that crack however we need to.
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The 60 something times the local cops went to his house between like 2012 and 2015 is a good place to start... and why the FBI dropped the ball, again, on a warning about him in January the same way the fucking Air Force fucked it up with the guy in Texas.
 
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