Sam Harris v Russel Brand Discussion on Islam, philosophy and other issues.

[helltoupee]

How about if the guy putting forward the argument knows more about the topic at hand than you? Do you give his posts more consideration?

Of course.

The entire conversation started, and was based on, the supposition that all Muslims are deeply disturbed people at their core. That is in fact not true. No amount of experience, or inclusion in the group in question, will convince me otherwise.

That is not to say that he doesn't make some good points - I mentioned as much.

But sorry. I'm just not willing to budge when it comes to making (or defending) absolute generalizations.

 

[Frank23]

The video is unavailable.

 

[jeffk]

I really have a hard time seeing how anyone thought Brand looked good and made good arguments in the discussion. I saw. Majority report video on YouTube praising brand. I don’t get it.

 

[Hasn't Learnt]

I brought up the example of people I've known in response to another poster basically implying that 'if you really get to know a Muslim, you will find that they are a disturbing people'. I have gotten to know some Muslims, and am still very good friends with several from high school. Further, he was contending that Muslims are incapable of being anything other than extremists, which is why I raised the point about Americanized Muslims.

Call it lame all you want, it doesn't trump my experience that A) I have been around Muslims who worship Islam, and B) they were not suicidal Jihadis hell bent on throwing gays off roofs or separating my head from my body. Sorry, but I was taught to be very careful when using the terms all, always, everybody, and never.

Of course some peasant from Pakistan is going to be different. He's also seen his country ravaged by war, and will harbor a political and emotional aggression that has affected the manner in which he conducts himself.

I have an experiment for you, how about you go to these muslim people you know and tell them you are gay. Tell them you are interested in them. How much you wanna bet, you "stop being friends" at that point.

also what does a peasant being in war have to do with his views on women, children and throwing gay people off roofs?

 

[helltoupee]

I have an experiment for you, how about you go to these muslim people you know and tell them you are gay. Tell them you are interested in them. How much you wanna bet, you "stop being friends" at that point.

also what does a peasant being in war have to do with his views on women, children and throwing gay people off roofs?

Why don't you go up to one of your own friends and tell them you are gay and are interested in them? My Muslim friends wouldn't react any differently.

The funny thing here is, if you say your friends would be tolerant of you being a peter-gazer, it's only because society has become more "libtard". Conservatives bucked the open-mindedness on gays, women, blacks, Italians, the Irish, etc etc etc. Likewise, 100 years from now, widespread generalizing about all Muslims will be looked at in the same light.

 

[jeffk]

Hellhouse

I am not sure who you are talking about when you say he.

If you are talking about harris, I have a different reading or hearing of his views than you. When harris cites polls, he is doing it to say these x percentage of Muslims I disagree with on this issue. He is trying to do the opposite of generalizing.

Harris often breaks things down and says there are a small percentage of jihadists that Islamist and conservative Muslims think are are doing it wrong. And often points out that Muslims are most often the victim of jihadists. Harris has a issues with islamists and some conservatinve Muslims who hold illiberal views. He supports liberal and reform Muslims.

Harris understands why a Muslim guy in Iraq would be upset at the us. He also points out that there are guys who have grown up in Orange County California or computer science majors in college in England who have not been subject to any bombing who go off to fight for Isis or al queda and intentionally cut off heads of reporters.

There is a problem with finding a book infallible that was witten hundreds of years ago.

In the discussion with brand he also pointed to s problem with Christian dogma when it comes to stem cell research. He pointed to a seemingly innocent dogmatic idea that causes needless suffering for many.

 

[forum poster]

always weirded out by charlatans like sam harris and benjamin shapiro. who would devote numerous years of difficult studies into a specific field...only to never work in that field again and go straight into "muh politics"? fame-hungry posers imho

People think Shapiro is smart and knows what he's talking about on all subjects because he talks fast. People think Harris is smart and knows what he's talking about on all subjects because he talks slow.

Why do we care what a shitty rich not very funny supposedly comedian says on social issues?

For the same reason that people like listening to other idiots like Steven crowder, Stefan molyneux, PJW and Milo.

 

[forum poster]

And of all the people to have on to make the case for the other side he has Russel Brand....

In Harris' defense, he's had better guests on when it comes to this issue but not usually by much.

You'd think at this point he could easily get one to come on his show given his platform but at the same time I can also understand if scholars and historians might be weary of appearing on his podcast given his(not always accurate) reputation when it comes to Islam.

Reminds me when Ezra Klein tweeted an article of some academics critiquing the Bell curve. Instead of inviting the academics to discuss the data he tweets at Ezra Klein challenging him to come on. That's a sign that someone isn't interested in actually understanding and learning, but more into boosting his own profile.
His views on religion - which he built his whole career on, are also laughably reductionist. At least Dawkins can talk eloquently about evolution as good as anyone while he goes around trying to talk sense into creationists.

 

[forum poster]

As a person who listens to Sam Harris podcast fairly often I just wanted to say, the guy is exactly what I picture when I see the word cuck. Why I listen to him I cant explain.. but damn is he a fucking cuck

And here's the type of people I picture when I see people calling others 'Cucks'.

 

[Oeshon]

^^ that is one hell of a neckbeard

 

[Der Eisbär]

People think Shapiro is smart and knows what he's talking about on all subjects because he talks fast. People think Harris is smart and knows what he's talking about on all subjects because he talks slow.


For the same reason that people like listening to other idiots like Steven crowder, Stefan molyneux, PJW and Milo.

This is unbelievably stupid mental drivel you believe is actually logic for dismantling two bright thinkers.

 

[Trotsky]

Sam Harris is okay, I guess. Similar to Jordan Peterson, I think he's kind of tepid and inoffensive, and doesn't really say anything profound or insightful.

Meanwhile, lololololololol @ Shapiro, Crowder, Milo, or Molyneux being "bright thinkers." Shapiro has a quick wit and a talent for making morons seem moronic. The rest are idiots.

 

[lifelessheap]

I'm at the stage where when I see an Islam thread in the War Room, I am about to type something, then pause and realise "You know what.. I don't care for this, or the ensuing headache of constantly repeating myself to questions I've answered in previous threads." We all know Harris is gonna say "Islam is bad" any way.

Islam is poison. I get it. Or do you like gays thrown from rooftops and women smashed to death because they were raped?

Yikes.

 

[jimmas99]

I really have a hard time seeing how anyone thought Brand looked good and made good arguments in the discussion. I saw. Majority report video on YouTube praising brand. I don’t get it.

I tough their critique of Sam Harris interview was pretty good actually.

Sam misses a lot of nuances and very rarely bring up the political aspect of what's going on in the middle east.

I was a big Harris fan back in the day, but now im starting to think he's being a little to dogmatic and shallow.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

And here's the type of people I picture when I see people calling others 'Cucks'.

Now, you're telling me you were so ingrained with white trash DNA, your facial hair actually grows in on its own all white trashy like that?

 

[m25105]

Islam is poison. I get it. Or do you like gays thrown from rooftops and women smashed to death because they were raped?

Yikes.

Another useless post. I'm glad someone liked it. I'll be sure to tell my family we are bad Muslims cause we don't follow the example of ISIS and throw homosexuals off the top of buildings. Cause this one American poster here, implies that being a Muslim means we must. Maybe I should just put you all on ignore, but you'd probably see that as some sort of victory.

 

[squeezewax]

If only Christopher Hitchens was still around.

 

[jeffk]

The brooks guy does not make any sense. He says if Sufism was the main form of Islam there would not be problems. Then he argues beliefs do not matter as much as conditions.

What the hell? If Sufism was popular it would mean a different set of beliefs would be the the reason why things would be different.

 

[jeffk]

harris has said he was not talking about Iran with those comrments about a radical Islamic group got hold of a nuke.

He is talking about a group like Isis that deterrence will not be effective.

Pakistan has had a bomb for a long time and Harris is not talking about them as not being able to be dettered from using it.

 

[jeffk]

Harris does not say other religions or secular ideas cannot be manipulated to commit suicide bombings.

But some religious texts can be more easily manipulated than others, especially if members think the text was the word of god and is infallible.