Rugby In Schools Is A Form Of Child Abuse, Claims A New Study

[Sinister]

I wonder how they would feel about us playing tackle football in the street, getting slammed into the occasional car lol. I remember one time we were playing at the park, and this tomboy put a guys head through a wooden fence boy did we laugh and laugh...good times.

I have a nice scar on my knee from my own Cousin running me the f*ck over. He hit me, my knee hit the pavement, he kept running. I do remember when my Uncle out alcohol on the giant scrape (there was skin on the pavement) I didnt scream or cry, so he put more, I didnt scream. He put more again and I said "okay can you stop? That hurts " He said he was waiting for me to scream or cry, he said his kids would have. I want back outside and called my older Cousin a p*ssy in front of his friends "yeah you got me, but I dont cry when I get a boo boo treated."

 

[Anewt]

I'm not so sure helmets offer much protection against concussion.

Drop an egg, the shell breaks and the yolk scrambles.

Wrap an egg in bubble wrap, drop it, the shell stays intact, but the yolk still scrambles.

Also, American football has years to go compared to rugby in regards to tackling techniques.

Football is still about launching yourself at an opponent like a human missile.

Rugby (union) is more akin to wrestling: change level, wrap around the body, take them down.

??


It's undeniable helmets work to protect the brain....... it's literally one of the main reasons they are worn ..... for safety.....

Helmets stop concussions in mining..... riding... car accidents... collisions...

Why would it suddenly not in nfl?

They definitely do help. But they create their own issues.

Leading with the head is one of the main issues tho as a lot of the " big hits " seem to be the top of the head/ helmet to bottom of helmet.

That's like the crown of the head into someone's jaw.. just doesn't happen in rugby often. Definitely not in tackles , be more a outcome of a loose ball ( happens a lot more in afl ) and that's a nasty impact.

Union I'd say the biggest threat would be neck/ spinal injuries , far more of a threat than the head knocks imo.

League I'd expect higher levels of cte.

Afl will have huge cte as well

The equipment in the nfl has created the nfl lack of tackling technique. If you gave me pads and a helmet as a young kid I would've tried to run through walls lol.

I don't think any are tougher or more dangerous than the other btw. All depends on the individual .

Like boxing some are probably more prone to Suffering issues from one big knock... but the bigger culprit seems to lean towards repeatative impacts over a course of time than one event.


Well that's what I've learnt for my own health

 

[bandicoot]

I played all through school, 80's and 90's for me and apart from some breaks... shit happens, I never saw a single serious injury.

I saw worse injuries from cricket...

It's almost like different people have different experiences.

Crazy shit, I know.

 

[lowlife]

I have a nice scar on my knee from my own Cousin running me the f*ck over. He hit me, my knee hit the pavement, he kept running. I do remember when my Uncle out alcohol on the giant scrape (there was skin on the pavement) I didnt scream or cry, so he put more, I didnt scream. He put more again and I said "okay can you stop? That hurts " He said he was waiting for me to scream or cry, he said his kids would have. I want back outside and called my older Cousin a p*ssy in front of his friends "yeah you got me, but I dont cry when I get a boo boo treated."

It's funny we took so much pride in being tough back then. Being older and having some perspective, I still don't regret my upbringing, as tough as it was. But I do think it's ok to be more thoughtful about what permanent damage we might be doing to kids..to a degree anyway. Life is tough and sports certainly help build character and introduce kids to overcoming obstacles; I guess it's like most things these days, there is a compromise there somewhere in the middle, if people would just be reasonable.

 

[Sinister]

It's funny we took so much pride in being tough back then. Being older and having some perspective, I still don't regret my upbringing, as tough as it was. But I do think it's ok to be more thoughtful about what permanent damage we might be doing to kids..to a degree anyway. Life is tough and sports certainly help build character and introduce kids to overcoming obstacles; I guess it's like most things these days, there is a compromise there somewhere in the middle, if people would just be reasonable.

I was a latchkey kid, did everything alone and my Mother had essentially no supervision over me for most of the day. I asked her years later how she coped with it and she said this:

"Oh I cried every day. You never saw that because I would be at work but I'd go to the bathroom and cry because I knew from the time I left until the time I got home, anything could have happened to you and you were so small. That's why I was to strict and tough on you. You also never knew that the whole first year you walked to school I followed you. I had just enough time to do that and make sure you were doing things right. But because of our situation, there was no other way we would survive. You HAD to be taught, trained, no one was gonna help us."

My kids seem soft to me by comparison but then again my older Son has twice the confidence in himself as an athlete than I did at the same age. Their dreams havent been crushed by harshness. They understand that toughness comes in different forms. And they HAVE me present where I didnt have a present Father. Toughness can mean tons of different things, and being a torpedo for some Coach with delusions of grandeur isn't always one of them.

My Son and I (this is his channel);

 

[BearGrounds]

Meanwhile in China:



It couldn't be more obvious what's going on here. We're purposely being fed leftist ideology to destabilize and weaken our nation.

Where's that ideology coming from?

Well, if you look at Epstein, some of the guys pushing it were supposed clients of his (Kimmel, Colbert). Epstein can be linked back to Israeli intelligence via Robert Maxwell. Why would Israeli intelligence feed us radical leftist ideology? Interesting question, if they indeed are.

 

[Osculater]

Meanwhile in China:



It couldn't be more obvious what's going on here. We're purposely being fed leftist ideology to destabilize and weaken our nation.

Where's that ideology coming from?

Well, if you look at Epstein, some of the guys pushing it were supposed clients of his (Kimmel, Colbert). Epstein can be linked back to Israeli intelligence via Robert Maxwell. Why would Israeli intelligence feed us radical leftist ideology? Interesting question, if they indeed are.

Mang, they will get murked by U.S. gang members

 

[BearGrounds]

Mang, they will get murked by U.S. gang members

Its a nice thought, actually. Maybe gangs have some upside, after all. If they decide to defend the homeland along with us come go time, that'd be pretty marvelous.

 

[lowlife]

I was a latchkey kid, did everything alone and my Mother had essentially no supervision over me for most of the day. I asked her years later how she coped with it and she said this:

"Oh I cried every day. You never saw that because I would be at work but I'd go to the bathroom and cry because I knew from the time I left until the time I got home, anything could have happened to you and you were so small. That's why I was to strict and tough on you. You also never knew that the whole first year you walked to school I followed you. I had just enough time to do that and make sure you were doing things right. But because of our situation, there was no other way we would survive. You HAD to be taught, trained, no one was gonna help us."

My kids seem soft to me by comparison but then again my older Son has twice the confidence in himself as an athlete than I did at the same age. Their dreams havent been crushed by harshness. They understand that toughness comes in different forms. And they HAVE me present where I didnt have a present Father. Toughness can mean tons of different things, and being a torpedo for some Coach with delusions of grandeur isn't always one of them.

My Son and I (this is his channel);

Yeah I was raised by TV, hip hop, and outside. For what it's worth it seems like you turned out ok, providing a good life for your kids and setting a good example. Though in a broader sense, speaking on "toughness" and going through shit as a kid, I certainly understand what you're saying..sometimes you get made stronger and it all works out, but sometimes you get broken and spend some hard years digging yourself out of a hole. I still wouldn't change anything, because here I am, but I also wouldn't wish it on anyone else. Congrats bro, you love to see it.

 

[Osculater]

Its a nice thought, actually. Maybe gangs have some upside, after all. If they decide to defend the homeland along with us come go time, that'd be pretty marvelous.

Provide them food stamps and unlimited supply of malt liquor, and Hennessy

 

[Sinister]

Yeah I was raised by TV, hip hop, and outside. For what it's worth it seems like you turned out ok, providing a good life for your kids and setting a good example. Though in a broader sense, speaking on "toughness" and going through shit as a kid, I certainly understand what you're saying..sometimes you get made stronger and it all works out, but sometimes you get broken and spend some hard years digging yourself out of a hole. I still wouldn't change anything, because here I am, but I also wouldn't wish it on anyone else. Congrats bro, you love to see it.

Make no mistake there's lots of PTSD and abandonment issues. I'm just fortunate enough to be aware of them and I try to be someone who can admit my faults. I also see the change in my Mom, she's a ton more gentle with my kids, and buys them stuff where I got bopped on the head for looking at things too long lol

It's definitely a journey.

To bring this back a bit to the relevant topic, I tell my students you almost never fully overcome your fears and hangups, you get better at dealing with them. Part of my philosophy on Coaching is being absolutely honest about fighting, about taking damage, about everything that could go wrong. Teaching my fighters to harness fear as opposed to pretending not to have it. Last year one of my guys had this result:



Now, here is the background story of that fight and a bit about that kid:



Post-script: I reached out to the kid he beat and offered to help him, because I feel like he was ill-prepared for that fight. He refused.

 

[Anewt]

Makes me wonder what the likelihood of a increased chance for cte comes with older siblings hah.

Gotta increase it

 

[Sinister]

??


It's undeniable helmets work to protect the brain....... it's literally one of the main reasons they are worn ..... for safety.....

Helmets stop concussions in mining..... riding... car accidents... collisions...

Why would it suddenly not in nfl?

They definitely do help. But they create their own issues.

Leading with the head is one of the main issues tho as a lot of the " big hits " seem to be the top of the head/ helmet to bottom of helmet.

That's like the crown of the head into someone's jaw.. just doesn't happen in rugby often. Definitely not in tackles , be more a outcome of a loose ball ( happens a lot more in afl ) and that's a nasty impact.

Union I'd say the biggest threat would be neck/ spinal injuries , far more of a threat than the head knocks imo.

League I'd expect higher levels of cte.

Afl will have huge cte as well

The equipment in the nfl has created the nfl lack of tackling technique. If you gave me pads and a helmet as a young kid I would've tried to run through walls lol.

I don't think any are tougher or more dangerous than the other btw. All depends on the individual .

Like boxing some are probably more prone to Suffering issues from one big knock... but the bigger culprit seems to lean towards repeatative impacts over a course of time than one event.


Well that's what I've learnt for my own health

I'm also not entirely sold on the crash helmet. The brain still rattles around inside the skull. If the helmet provides much, it could be argued that there is less wiggle room, less torque on the neck, however there is also going to be harder impact. This is what is being suggested in boxing as I mentioned earlier. Smaller gloves and no headgear carries much greater threat of breaking a hand, so fighters are more careful about their punches. In the gym, not so much. So the impact is more reckless. There's not a ton of medical data from the pre-helmet days to make direct comparisons, so we're mostly talking theoretically. However, just like in boxing with the arrival of gloves, then bigger gloves...when the helmet was introduced to football hitting technique changed. The guys who learned in the leather cap days hit with their shoulders:



Hardy Brown was legendary tackler, and he did knock out quite a few players in his day, however not with head-to-head collisions. So it's not two guys taking full-speed collisions to the head.

 

[Gene Tunney]

You see, I played flag football at the Y, up until Jr. High. Though, the neighborhood did play a rare game of tackle football without pads. That's how we found out who was good, for the future.

Nevertheless, I could not even imagine playing an entire season of tackle football before jr. high. Flag football was good enough without having to worry about being concussed.

 

[Anewt]

I'm also not entirely sold on the crash helmet. The brain still rattles around inside the skull. If the helmet provides much, it could be argued that there is less wiggle room, less torque on the neck, however there is also going to be harder impact. This is what is being suggested in boxing as I mentioned earlier. Smaller gloves and no headgear carries much greater threat of breaking a hand, so fighters are more careful about their punches. In the gym, not so much. So the impact is more reckless. There's not a ton of medical data from the pre-helmet days to make direct comparisons, so we're mostly talking theoretically. However, just like in boxing with the arrival of gloves, then bigger gloves...when the helmet was introduced to football hitting technique changed. The guys who learned in the leather cap days hit with their shoulders:



Hardy Brown was legendary tackler, and he did knock out quite a few players in his day, however not with head-to-head collisions. So it's not two guys taking full-speed collisions to the head.

I know if I was to go head first into a wall/rock solid object I'm taking the helmet. Of any type..... I'm sure 99% of us all would... so it's a bit of a odd argument to me.


I understand your point regarding recklessness when perceived protection is on. Definitely wouldn't have helped me as child feeling more indestructible hah. Didn't need help with that at all. I still tackled hell reckless but I Can only imagine how much more kamikaze I would have been.

This is also not really brought up often but in ( of course this is just based on my observations)

Union


Head injuries rugby union - generally the tacklers in defence predominantly head to knee / head hip . Head / ground. Head to head occurs but not as frequently as the others. Usually tacklers and offensive goes extremely low in defence and attack. ( of course shoulders and elbows/ forearms also represent )

League

Generally ball runners - Far more upright. More impact . Usually stray shoulders or upper body collisions causing head injuries. Of course impact to ground. A lot more head clashes than union.

Afl

Not so much as during " tackles " but attempting to regather the ball would generally be where majority of bad headknocks occur.
Hips knees shoulder. ( head over ball chasing it impacts )


The contradiction is I think you're correct. Giving them pads / helmets would just increase the injuries imo. Although due to the sports not stopping after a hit like in nfl I doubt we'd ever see the same reversion of technique [ re tackling etc ]

We focus a lot on the head to head but that's not the only protection it offers.

 

[Sinister]

I know if I was to go head first into a wall/rock solid object I'm taking the helmet. Of any type..... I'm sure 99% of us all would... so it's a bit of a odd argument to me.


I understand your point regarding recklessness when perceived protection is on. Definitely wouldn't have helped me as child feeling more indestructible hah. Didn't need help with that at all. I still tackled hell reckless but I Can only imagine how much more kamikaze I would have been.

This is also not really brought up often but in ( of course this is just based on my observations)

Union


Head injuries rugby union - generally the tacklers in defence predominantly head to knee / head hip . Head / ground. Head to head occurs but not as frequently as the others. Usually tacklers and offensive goes extremely low in defence and attack. ( of course shoulders and elbows/ forearms also represent )

League

Generally ball runners - Far more upright. More impact . Usually stray shoulders or upper body collisions causing head injuries. Of course impact to ground. A lot more head clashes than union.

Afl

Not so much as during " tackles " but attempting to regather the ball would generally be where majority of bad headknocks occur.
Hips knees shoulder. ( head over ball chasing it impacts )


The contradiction is I think you're correct. Giving them pads / helmets would just increase the injuries imo. Although due to the sports not stopping after a hit like in nfl I doubt we'd ever see the same reversion of technique [ re tackling etc ]

We focus a lot on the head to head but that's not the only protection it offers.

For sure, there is a huge on-going CTE study by the Cleveland Clinic here in Vegas and I happen to be acquainted with one of the neurologists helping with it. So a lot of my input comes from a different but relevant Sport where they're looking harder at these nuances. Earlier I posted that video of American Footballers doing that "Oklahoma" drills, many teams dont do those anymore at all. But THAT video is particularly terrible because of poor technique and coaching, where the coaches seem to be focused on the end result and not more efficient means of achieving the goal. They definitely seem to perpetuate the old "eh they have helmets, theyll be fine" ideology.

 

[Anewt]

For sure, there is a huge on-going CTE study by the Cleveland Clinic here in Vegas and I happen to be acquainted with one of the neurologists helping with it. So a lot of my input comes from a different but relevant Sport where they're looking harder at these nuances. Earlier I posted that video of American Footballers doing that "Oklahoma" drills, many teams dont do those anymore at all. But THAT video is particularly terrible because of poor technique and coaching, where the coaches seem to be focused on the end result and not more efficient means of achieving the goal. They definitely seem to perpetuate the old "eh they have helmets, theyll be fine" ideology.

I've always been curious dur to my health and my neurologist requested my brain a long time ago so they can have it when I'm done hah.

Had quite a few bad headknocks. Always got migraines growing up. Took a few more headknocks. Ended up having a migraine that turned into a stroke or vice versa while at work. The cause has always been a ' what came first question '.

Got permanent aurora in left eye. ( imagine having just stared briefly at the sun ) permanently and a few other quirks that interest the specialists apparently lol

I personally wouldn't put it on just sports anyhow. Easy way out. I damn well didn't help it over the years lol

Sadly bad coaching was very common throughout my years. I would have thought it would be better by now , But I'm sure there's still idiots

 

[Sinister]

You see, I played flag football at the Y, up until Jr. High. Though, the neighborhood did play a rare game of tackle football without pads. That's how we found out who was good, for the future.

Nevertheless, I could not even imagine playing an entire season of tackle football before jr. high. Flag football was good enough without having to worry about being concussed.

Football was like a religion in South Florida in the late 80's and early 90's. The Hurricanes were insanely good, the Seminoles were also very good, the Gators and FAMU were decent. And there were 2 Pro teams. Pop-Warner was a must and it was very very competitive. Every kid in South Florida was gonna be a Hurricane when they got older:



When I saw Friday Night Tykes it reminded me of the scene in Florida:

 

[Meatspin]

Heard him on a podcast last week, the drugs have cooked him, weirdo. He owns a brothel and goes once a week ha ha

That is both depressing and hilarious. What podcast was it?

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

That is both depressing and hilarious. What podcast was it?

Sam Newman “you cannot be serious”, used to love it but don’t listen much now, he’s a silly old prick. When I saw Capper was on I had to have a listen