Roosmalen tight guard defense

[Snubnoze707]

I mean you remove "arm kicks" and Pet still wins that fight. That's what bothers me, people trying to justify RVR winning because "arm kicks don't score", but what about the clean kicks to the body, the flush knees and the crisp punches?

RVR on the other hand just plodded forward whiffing shots and hitting gloves, only occasionally getting through until the fifth round which was the only decisive round for him.

But ya, this isn't the first time we've seen this. K-1 was notorious for favoring flurries over crisp single strikes. It's dumb, and creates a style bias in the sport.

I don't think Muay Thai scoring is perfect either but at least it puts emphasis on impactful strikes rather than scoring points regardless of the cleanliness and impact of the strike (unless it's a kick of course)...

 

[SuperLuigi]

Thailand obviously has a different way of scoring fights no doubt but in the case of Petpanomrung/RVR it wasn't just us on the forum complaining about that one, the large majority of people who watched that kickboxing fan or not agree that pet won that. Different cultures value the impact of arm kicks differently but from what I've seen only the dutch completely ignore their impact. Sakmongkol beat JWP in the k1 oceanic gp pretty much exclusively through arm kicks, Nokweed took LeBanner to the extension round through arm kicks (the judges might have just wanted to give the underdog an extra round though), Yod beat Marat with arm kicks, Buakaw won a close decision against JWP in 04 gp with kicks. There are instances like JWP/Yod but to me that was just a hometown decision, Australian promotions generally value kicks to the arm.

Ah okay so you specifically meant the arm kick thing. Yes there are many different approaches to it. In Kunlun for example it seems to actually be a high scoring technique.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I mean you remove "arm kicks" and Pet still wins that fight. That's what bothers me, people trying to justify RVR winning because "arm kicks don't score", but what about the clean kicks to the body, the flush knees and the crisp punches?

I thought Pet's knees were the most significant strikes of the fight. I'm trying to think of another Glory fight with one guy eating so many knees.

 

[Kanka]

If the bad decisions are because of Glory being so corrupt, then how do you explain Cedric Doumbe beating Holzken by split decision? It was a clear win for Doumbe and yet one of the judges still somehow managed to give it 48-47 holzken. I think some of the judges are just so biased and incompetent.

Now, Glory doesn't act properly in those situations anyway, they should take some more action to avoid those situations. I think they need to ban the judges with shitty score cards from judging their future fights or at least adressing their shitty judging.

 

[SuperLuigi]

If the bad decisions are because of Glory being so corrupt, then how do you explain Cedric Doumbe beating Holzken by split decision? It was a clear win for Doumbe and yet one of the judges still somehow managed to give it 48-47 holzken. I think some of the judges are just so biased and incompetent.

Now, Glory doesn't act properly in those situations anyway, they should take some more action to avoid those situations. I think they need to ban the judges with shitty score cards from judging their future fights or at least adressing their shitty judging.

I just rewatched Pet vs Adamchuk which has left me even more confused about Glory scoring than before. I was thinking that since RvR was using more boxing against Pet in their fight Glory must must heavily favor boxing. However, 3/5 judges gave Pet every round against Adamchuk despite Adamchuk landing much more punches and in R1 landed some clean heavy ones. I did notice a common denominator though; Pet spent much of the fight walking forward but much of the RvR fight backing up. Maybe the judges are putting heavy emphasis on going forward? It would square with the Doumbe thing too, its so dumb though lol

 

[Yodsanan]

the judges are inconsistent and incompetent. I wouldn't look for much sense in the scoring by comparing fights.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

the judges are inconsistent and incompetent.

Why do people on this forum always assume that? That the decision was just because the judges are incompetent and push the idea of corruption aside? Is it because you love the sport and don't WANT that to be the reality?

Inconsistent is the key word in your comment. Not consistently being incompetent is what makes it more suspicious. Sittichai was robbed against Roosmalen in the first fight and yet he's won every fight in Glory ever since. Even ones that were closer. Do you remember the punch stats in that first fight? How incompetent can the judges be to come up with those stats? How can anyone look at those stats and come up with "incompetent judges" as the reason?

 

[Kanka]

Why do people on this forum always assume that? That the decision was just because the judges are incompetent and push the idea of corruption aside? Is it because you love the sport and don't WANT that to be the reality?

Inconsistent is the key word in your comment. Not consistently being incompetent is what makes it more suspicious. Sittichai was robbed against Roosmalen in the first fight and yet he's won every fight in Glory ever since. Even ones that were closer. Do you remember the punch stats in that first fight? How incompetent can the judges be to come up with those stats? How can anyone look at those stats and come up with "incompetent judges" as the reason?

Some of the judges are biased for sure, but i don't think Glory pays the judges to favor one guy. If they paid the judges it would make sense to pay all, not only one or two like in some fights that end up as split decision when it should be a clear unanimous decision.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Why do people on this forum always assume that? That the decision was just because the judges are incompetent and push the idea of corruption aside? Is it because you love the sport and don't WANT that to be the reality?

Inconsistent is the key word in your comment. Not consistently being incompetent is what makes it more suspicious. Sittichai was robbed against Roosmalen in the first fight and yet he's won every fight in Glory ever since. Even ones that were closer. Do you remember the punch stats in that first fight? How incompetent can the judges be to come up with those stats? How can anyone look at those stats and come up with "incompetent judges" as the reason?

I don't think that Jon Franklin and Cor Hemmers are walking in with briefcases of cash, I think its just that because of the internet the officials and their friends catch wind of it when they make an unpopular call. Then the next judge who has to call an RvR vs Sittichai fight for example is going to really go out of their way to not fall into the same trap.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

Doesn't have to be them paying the judges but some type of agenda for all parties. You really gonna ignore my comment about the stats? Roosmalen winning that first fight and saying its because he was walking forward and pushing the pace. Fair enough...that could be the definition of incompetent. But then you read the stats and realize its more then being incompetent unless you seriously feel that those ringside judges scoring that many punches for Roosmalen was just a mistake.

 

[Kanka]

Doesn't have to be them paying the judges but some type of agenda for all parties. You really gonna ignore my comment about the stats? Roosmalen winning that first fight and saying its because he was walking forward and pushing the pace. Fair enough...that could be the definition of incompetent. But then you read the stats and realize its more then being incompetent unless you seriously feel that those ringside judges scoring that many punches for Roosmalen was just a mistake.

I don't think the judges are responsible for the stats it's more likely someone in the production team. And yeah the stats usually are very incorrect and probably biased aswell.


But just watch any dutch vs thai fight outside of glory; even if the dutch only landed punches on the arms and gloves, many dutch fans still seem to believe that the dutch was superior when he clearly wasn't. Watch Kongfah vs Mohamed Khamal for example. So yeah i definitely think there is a stylistic bias but it's not fair to accuse glory of paying the judges without having any information to back it up.

 

[Yodsanan]

Why do people on this forum always assume that? That the decision was just because the judges are incompetent and push the idea of corruption aside?

Crazy rambling and having no proof to back it up seems like the more logical thing to do.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

Crazy rambling and having no proof to back it up seems like the more logical thing to do.

Crazy rambling? Is that what your calling it? Because I leave myself open to the possibilities that it could be more than just the judges? So what about the Buakaw vs Yi Long fight? Was that just the judges making a mistake?

 

[DastardlyMass]

They do not have to be "paying off" the judges in the way most people think. It could be as simple as a glory official just casually throws out who they would rather have win the fight or favor so glory gets better tv ratings or sells more tickets to an iska official at a dinner sometime fight week. That iska official goes to the judges and explains scoring criteria for the event and how the certain things should be scored in relation to each other (meaning the say certain things should be scored higher or given more weight). At that point all the iska official has to do is say the organization had a meeting and they are going to adjust the scoring based off past judges mistakes and makes the criteria for the night favor the style of the fighter glory prefers to win. Under this scenario the judges do not even have a clue they were improperly influsened and is the easiest way to never get caught effecting the outcome of fights. Glory succeeding and doing well props up the iska since glory is basically keeping them afloat at this point by being the iska's biggest customer.

I want to make this clear that i am not saying this is what IS happening but how it easily could be with how the scoring criteria varies widely between glory events.

 

[SuperLuigi]

They do not have to be "paying off" the judges in the way most people think. It could be as simple as a glory official just casually throws out who they would rather have win the fight or favor so glory gets better tv ratings or sells more tickets to an iska official at a dinner sometime fight week. That iska official goes to the judges and explains scoring criteria for the event and how the certain things should be scored in relation to each other (meaning the say certain things should be scored higher or given more weight). At that point all the iska official has to do is say the organization had a meeting and they are going to adjust the scoring based off past judges mistakes and makes the criteria for the night favor the style of the fighter glory prefers to win. Under this scenario the judges do not even have a clue they were improperly influsened and is the easiest way to never get caught effecting the outcome of fights. Glory succeeding and doing well props up the iska since glory is basically keeping them afloat at this point by being the iska's biggest customer.

I want to make this clear that i am not saying this is what IS happening but how it easily could be with how the scoring criteria varies widely between glory events.

I don't think that this would be something that would happen regularly, but I suspect that something similar happened in the aftermath of Marcus vs Levin 2(their first Glory fight). The fight definitely turned off nearly everyone who watched it and Glory would have done what they could have to avoid a recurrence in the rematch. Then we get Al Wichers acting like a WWE ref in the rematch lol

 

[Snubnoze707]

Doesn't have to be them paying the judges but some type of agenda for all parties. You really gonna ignore my comment about the stats? Roosmalen winning that first fight and saying its because he was walking forward and pushing the pace. Fair enough...that could be the definition of incompetent. But then you read the stats and realize its more then being incompetent unless you seriously feel that those ringside judges scoring that many punches for Roosmalen was just a mistake.

Judging in Kickboxing has always favored a move forward combination low kick game over mid kicks with straight single punches. This goes back to K-1, it's not some Glory agenda. It just shows a bias to a style in the sport, which is a flaw but no need to go the conspiracy route.

 

[AbeRudder]

Judging in Kickboxing has always favored a move forward combination low kick game over mid kicks with straight single punches. This goes back to K-1, it's not some Glory agenda. It just shows a bias to a style in the sport, which is a flaw but no need to go the conspiracy route.

What are some non buakaw examples of this? Not that I disagree but it's been a while since ive watched some of those old k1 fights.

There was this one from memory but it was too close to be in the same discussion as pet/rvr

 

[Deleted member 347815]

Lol @ the "I blocked them all" post. I can't stand watching that style, it really bothers me way more than it should lol. It just seems so mindless and "Just Bleed" to me.

Ill die before I ever agree that kicks to the arms and shoulders are not damaging

 

[ctrlaltdelete]

a little OT



RvR sparring with Michael Johnson at Hoofts Blackzilians (?)
This is RvR first time training since winning the match v Pet. looks like hes having a good time.
Nieky Holzken sparred him too when he visited last time too.

 

[RichardN7]

a little OT



RvR sparring with Michael Johnson at Hoofts Blackzilians (?)
This is RvR first time training since winning the match v Pet. looks like hes having a good time.
Nieky Holzken sparred him too when he visited last time too.

Fucking idiots. Sparring like that with no headgear.
And this stupid inside fighting will still result in the being KTFO when fighting a truly skilled striker like McGregor.