Rocky Marciano vs. Muhammad Ali

[wilddeuces]

Frazier at his best weighed in close to today's CW limit. He'd be fighting at cruiser today.

205 in '71, 209 in '74, and 225 in '75. I'd say 1971 was a good year for Frazier (and the one in which he first fought and beat Ali), so we'll take that as his best. It also just so happens to be above the CW limit and well above the typical and prime weight of188 lbs of Rocky.

 

[JayE]

eh, I think it'd be about like when Adamek went to HW.

Adamek actually had limited success, but Kovalev is better than Adamek at everything. Adamek got soundly outboxed by Chad Dawson, after all.

 

[JayE]

Frazier at his best weighed in close to today's CW limit. He'd be fighting at cruiser today.

Ali at his best weighed around 210. Would he also be fighting at cruiser? I mean, both might start there, but they'd quickly clean out the division and be looking for the real money at HW. It's going to be the same thing with Usyk (Usyk isn't at their level, but he does have a chance of being elite at HW as soon as CW is cleared out).

 

[JayE]

People tend to overrate Marciano because of the perfect record. It was impressive, and he was a very good fighter but not on the level of Ali. The fight would be a one sided mismatch. A better "who would win" would be Marciano vs Holyfield or Marciano vs Michael Spinks.

Marciano would beat Spinks. Qawi gave Spinks plenty of problems and Marciano was naturally bigger and more dangerous than Qawi.

 

[BluntTrauma21]

I feel like Marciano would be small for even cw nowadays. I always felt like he was a guy who fought at like 190 max, that's 10lbs lower than cw and I doubt he even cut much weight if any.

 

[Seano]

Ali at his best weighed around 210. Would he also be fighting at cruiser? I mean, both might start there, but they'd quickly clean out the division and be looking for the real money at HW. It's going to be the same thing with Usyk (Usyk isn't at their level, but he does have a chance of being elite at HW as soon as CW is cleared out).

Maybe. You don't see very many 210 pound HWs today, do you?

 

[JayE]

Maybe. You don't see very many 210 pound HWs today, do you?

Not a ton, but you don't see a lot of talents like Ali and Frazier these days, either.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

I feel like Marciano would be small for even cw nowadays. I always felt like he was a guy who fought at like 190 max, that's 10lbs lower than cw and I doubt he even cut much weight if any.

this. Dude would probably be a LHW

 

[wilddeuces]

this. Dude would probably be a LHW

Scary as LHW. Be putting guys away.

 

[JayE]

I feel like Marciano would be small for even cw nowadays. I always felt like he was a guy who fought at like 190 max, that's 10lbs lower than cw and I doubt he even cut much weight if any.

He'd certainly be on the small side, but he'd still be dominant at the weight in the current division, I think.

 

[BluntTrauma21]

He'd certainly be on the small side, but he'd still be dominant at the weight in the current division, I think.

Agree, he'd wipe the floor with most cruisers. You think he could've made 175 or was he too stocky? I'm also worried if he could make lhw then it might take away from his stamina. Imo his stamina/pressure was his strongest attribute as much as his power was. Guy was relentless.

 

[JayE]

Agree, he'd wipe the floor with most cruisers. You think he could've made 175 or was he too stocky? I'm also worried if he could make lhw then it might take away from his stamina. Imo his stamina/pressure was his strongest attribute as much as his power was. Guy was relentless.

When he was at his best he was around 185-190 and he carried very little fat. Draining down might have taken away from his performance, but that's not a massive cut. It's around what guys like Kovalev and Stevenson do nowadays and neither Kovalev nor Stevenson carry much fat. I'd wager Beterbiev cuts more than that. Fighting over 12 rounds instead of 15 might have actually led him to train a bit different and add a bit more weight to his frame. There are very few fighters in the current sport at any weight who can carry the same pace for 12 rounds that Marciano was able to carry over 15.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Here's Ali's thoughts on Marciano and who would've won between them. It was in the OP. Take a minute and a half of your time and check out what Ali had to say.



Their styles were totally different, like oil and water. Marciano could've potentially outfought him but my money would've been on a prime Ali outboxing a prime Rocky. The size difference has to be factored in, Ali's athleticism (hand & foot speed and reflexes in particular), not just his boxing skill, and all of the other tangibles and intangibles that they both had. I almost always favor the more scientific (more technical, fundamentally sound) fighter over the lesser because they leave less to chance. Rocky was a beast of a fighter but Ali had too much class, size and athleticism for him imo. Ali had the tools to keep him at bay with a disciplined gameplan and to pick him apart. If Rocky was around today he'd be a Cruiserweight that likely could make Light Heavyweight. We have larger LHW fighters than Rocky as it is.

 

[ssx]

so Holyfield wasn't Ali level too?

It's all about styles. Ali would box Holy's ears off, while Marciano and Holy would probably be a back and forth war that I'd favor Holyfield to win. To answer your question... not really. Ali is top 2 all time, Holyfield IMO is top 12-15.

 

[DannyNL]

Ali would have outboxed him, without a doubt. Rocky would have given him a good fight, and no doubt landed some good shots (especially to the body), but I take Ali all day on that one.

People need to remember that Rocky was never a true HW in the modern sense, and he very rarely fought guys who were north of 200lbs.

In Rocky's prime, which I was estimate to be 1952 around the time of the Jersey Joe fights, he was 184 1/2lbs.

In Ali's prime, which I believe the consensus is 1966 around the Cleveland Williams fight, he was 212 3/4lbs.

So not only are we talking a big difference in skill, speed, reflexes, height, reach, etc, we're talking about a massive size difference.

 

[PUO3]

It's all about styles. Ali would box Holy's ears off.

Think so? Holyfield at his best is probably the most well rounded HW ever.

 

[clashnat]

Think so? Holyfield at his best is probably the most well rounded HW ever.

Yea, but could he beat Deontay Wilder?

 

[HereticBD]

Ali fucking kills him. Ali kicked the asses of far better brawlers then Marciano.

 

[clashnat]

It's all about styles. Ali would box Holy's ears off, while Marciano and Holy would probably be a back and forth war that I'd favor Holyfield to win. To answer your question... not really. Ali is top 2 all time, Holyfield IMO is top 12-15.

Ali's most likely wins this fight. With his mobility, it's unlikely that Evander gets him on the hook. I don't think he could get prime Larry Holmes on the hook either.

But Evander is easily top 10 ...Ali enjoyed a significant size advantage on a big portion of his opposition in the 60s... around 60% were beneath 200 pounds, and the others were overmatched athletically. Evan Fields was more advanced than every single of Ali's opponents during that time, including Sonny Liston.

 

[PUO3]

Yea, but could he beat Deontay Wilder?

Someones still salty I see.