Ramp up to WWIII

[Pupi]

Well, thank you my friend. No, I'm just a lowly peasant boy. I have a Bachelors degree in Psychology with a minor in Political Science. I enjoy reading about history and military conflicts. Retired from the U.S. Army. I came across Said and his quote many years ago while studying about the Israelis and the Palestinians.

Ah, gotcha. History and War are fascinating subjects to study, both formally and informally. Said is crucial and he understands Western prejudices very well. If you like him, I suggest you read Homi Bhaba's The Location of Culture. Very abstract and complex, but one of the best books that I've read.

 

[Kframe]

Wrong!

Man wrote both the Torah and the Bible.

Wrong to you, but not me and literally billions of other people of the faith. Not sure what you were trying to accomplish with this.

 

[Phr3121]

Wrong to you, but not me and literally billions of other people of the faith. Not sure what you were trying to accomplish with this.

Did you not write this...

If the Jews were not chosen by God, why does the Bible say they were?

Don't get offended so easily my friend. Are you Jewish? I'm Catholic. I'm trying to strengthen your faith, and mine. Question what you are told and what you read. If God can hand Moses 10 Commendments, why can't he hand him the Torah? Why did Jesus not write the Bible? He could have done it during the 'unknown years', from the time he was 12 to the time he was 30. How many times has the Vatican revised the Bible and prayers. My faith comes from a deeper place than the Bible. The Bible, the Church, and the priest. A book, a building, and a man. God is infinitely more powerful than that.

 

[Kframe]

Did you not write this...



Don't get offended so easily my friend. Are you Jewish? I'm Catholic. I'm trying to strengthen your faith, and mine. Question what you are told and what you read. If God can hand Moses 10 Commendments, why can't he hand him the Torah? Why did Jesus not write the Bible? He could have done it during the 'unknown years', from the time he was 12 to the time he was 30. How many times has the Vatican revised the Bible and prayers. My faith comes from a deeper place than the Bible. The Bible, the Church, and a priest. A book, a building, and a man. God is infinitely more powerful than that.

What ever atheist. Believe what you want.

 

[abiG]

What i don't understand is how a Jewish person like you can be against Jews having easy access to the temple mount and actually be able to pray and worship there where it was previously forbidden.

False and for many reasons.

You won't have that if the muslims control Jerusalem.

Wrong again, these are zionist talking points; they don't reflect reality.

The Jews needed their own place.

Wrong and that has led to even more danger for the Jewish people.

The Stern Gang -- throughout the group's short lived history, it never saw more than one hundred members and did not reflect the views of mainstream Zionism.

They and their ilk became the first government of Israel.

Lenni Brenner takes a very complex and dark time in history and twists it to make claims and draw conclusions that are, at best, delusional and paranoid and at worst, a pure expression of hatred and furthering of an egotistical agenda.

Brenner's central thesis is based on his belief that the 'Zionists' co-acted with the Nazis so that a Jewish state would be created in Palestine, even if that meant a genocide against the Zionists' own people - the Jews. Through Brenner's suggestion, today’s Zionists should bare responsibility for the Holocaust and Israel should not be supported.

Here: https://rosswolfe.files.wordpress.c...ents-zionist-collaboration-with-the-nazis.pdf

 

[Phr3121]

They and their ilk became the first government of Israel.

51 DOCUMENTS: ZIONIST COLLABORATION WITH THE NAZIS, edit by Lenni Brenner

Yes, German Zionist Jews collaborated with the Nazis after 1933. Brenner's work isn't any kind of conspiracy theorist "secret history" nonsense. All of the history that Brenner documents is a matter of public record. Serious historians have no argument with Brenner's work, even if they disagree with him politically.

"This book presents 51 historic documents to indict Zionism for repeated attempts to collaborate with Adolf Hitler. The evidence, not I, will convince you of the truth in the issue...Today, if Churchill is still incorrectly popularly esteemed, his British empire is gone, to no one’s regret. And another anti-Nazi, Stalin, is reviled and his Soviet Union has vanished into the history books. In this context, exposing the Zionist role in the Hitler era is part of the scrutiny of the past, required of historians, and is no different in principle than denouncing Roosevelt or Stalin for their crimes, committed while they were fighting Hitler. The question is whether it will do some good, today, whether it will help Americans, Jew and gentile, understand Zionism and thereby help save lives, Palestinian and Israeli, by subjecting today’s Israel to the scrutiny called for by its crimes, past and present. I can’t answer that. Time will tell. But it doesn’t matter, at least for me. As a historian I can do no other than to dig up the facts and proclaim them. The proverb still is true: although the people may not heed, yet must the truth be told."

 

[Helden]

Wrong to you, but not me and literally billions of other people of the faith. Not sure what you were trying to accomplish with this.

No no no, thats not how it works. You dont get to choose facts for yourself. Facts are just that, facts. The bible, the torah and literally every religious text in history was written by men. Humans who knew very little about the natural world and thus substituted their ignorance with magic

 

[abiG]

Yes, German Zionist Jews collaborated with the Nazis after 1933. Brenner's work isn't any kind of conspiracy theorist "secret history" nonsense. All of the history that Brenner documents is a matter of public record. Serious historians have no argument with Brenner's work, even if they disagree with him politically.

But before you were claiming he was twisting facts?

 

[Phr3121]

But before you were claiming he was twisting facts?

I never met anyone quite like you. I thought every Jew was a Zionist. I don't know if you are part of a majority or minority on this point. "51 DOCUMENTS: ZIONIST COLLABORATION WITH THE NAZIS, edit by Lenni Brenner", I think the verdict on the book is still out. Like I said before, I only read sections of the book so far. I did read a few of the reviews on the book and they seem to be split 50/50, hence, some of my comments.

I don't like some of the remarks and criticism made towards Britain and the United States at the conclusion of the book relating to WWII. To equate Japanese camps in the U.S. with Jewish concentration camps in Germany is ludicrous. The Japanese attacked the United States, the Jews did not attack Nazi Germany. The Japanese were well treated. Also, Japanese American soldiers were some of the toughest and bravest in the U.S. Army in the European theater during WWII. They had something to prove to themselves and their country.

I'm not sure why this book has not gained more exposure. I've never heard of it until you brought it up. It does portray some Jews under a very negative light. A hidden history of the Zionist movement. In the end, Hitler wanted the Jews dead, not relocated. It is a naïve idea to think otherwise. To think that these Jewish men could change Hitler's mind is very naïve. Well, Hitler eventually paid the price by loosing some of the brightest scientist the world had at the time, and to think that Nazi Germany could have gone nuclear before the Americans had the Nazis only played things slightly different. How those Jewish scientists could have helped the Nazi cause. How we could all be speaking German.

 

[Phr3121]

You don't get to choose facts for yourself. Facts are just that, facts. The bible, the torah and literally every religious text in history was written by men.

Yes, I did say that both the Torah and the Bible were written by man, but in @Kframe defense, God can also influence man at his choosing. Why do you believe what you believe? Something had to influence your belief system. Hence choice. It works for both atheists and those of faith. I believe the universe and man to be a creation from God. Man to have free will. I also believe that God did influence in the writing of the Bible. The mystery remains in what was influenced by the writer and what was influenced by God. I was testing Kframe's belief system as I test my own. Faith remains a mystery...