Q: If Fedor is the GOAT

[acannxr]

The premise is that Fedor was the GOAT and his decline was due solely to age and wear and tear and nothing to do with the evolution of MMA.

In fact most Fedor GOAT advocates refuse to acknowledge any evolution in the sport and will happily educate you in that the pinnacle of the sport was in Pride.

So my question is:

If Fedor had the blue print why does everyone today practice wrestling and BJJ rather than Sambo and Judo?? And then how can you say the sport hasnt past him??

I consider him the HW GOAT, I don't engage in P4P discussions (as I think they're absurd).

Your premise is flawed to begin with; the fighters who defeated Fedor didn't show him anything he hadn't seen before. Do you think Werdum was the first person who tried to submit Fedor off his back? Fedor fought Nogueira. Do you think Silva was the first person to punch Fedor in the face? Fedor had been punched in the face before. It's not like Fedor was fighting cans his entire career and the talent finally caught up with him, a la Ronda Rousey. The thing is, a lot of the same Heavyweights back then have had continued success today, which debunks your whole theory.

And which grappling art a fighter practices is more a result of their geographical location than anything else; BJJ in Brazil, Sambo/Wrestling in Russia, Wrestling in America, Judo in Japan, etc.

 

[Khabib Fan]

I don't think it was Sambo & Judo that made Fedor do so well. It was transitions. Sambo, Judo and those hands were just the tools he used.

 

[Fesaine]

Jones afraid to fight Cormier without steroids, Jones afraid to fight HW even with steroids. Your argument for him beating fedor is him beating a clean cormier when he was juiced?

My argument for Jones beating fedor is that he's much more dynamic and skilled than fedor in almost every aspect of mma

 

[SeattleFightFan]

Your premise is flawed to begin with; the fighters who defeated Fedor didn't show him anything he hadn't seen before. Do you think Werdum was the first person who tried to submit Fedor off his back? Fedor fought Nogueira. Do you think Silva was the first person to punch Fedor in the face? Fedor had been punched in the face before. It's not like Fedor was fighting cans his entire career and the talent finally caught up with him, a la Ronda Rousey. The thing is, a lot of the same Heavyweights back then have had continued success today, which debunks your whole theory.

good post.

new fans refuse to learn or appreciate the history here. in 2000, Nog was all but considered unbeatable in this new sport. Fedor beat him. mostly on the ground. later he beat him again. and he made it look if not easy than at least not difficult.

when he fought Cro Cop he beat him standing first, and then on the ground. Cro Cop was the most feared striker (except maybe Fedor).

after 7 or 8 years of dominance in MMA and Sambo, Fedor finally lost a Sambo match. a year or so later he finally lost a MMA match. he was older and slower. all signs pointed that way.

it was a fun era. Pride, pre-TUF, and pre-Brock. newer fans don't know or appreciate what they missed out on. suck for them.

 

[BayAreaGuy]

It's not just Fedors technique.

It was his speed, power, explosivness.

 

[wigglestick]

My argument for Jones beating fedor is that he's much more dynamic and skilled than fedor in almost every aspect of mma

Yea fighting clean fighters when you're on steroids will make you look better everywhere. I agree

 

[Juan Bombadil]

What are you talking about ... Fedor would still be champion @ today's HW division. Do you think that a wrestler like Blaydes has any chance against him ? Lol

Curtis would maul him

 

[testoviron]

Fedor was never a GOAT. He was fighting cans and freaks like Techno Goliath and Zuluzinho. He lost every important fight which would determine him as a GOAT.

 

[moreorless87]

The premise is that Fedor was the GOAT and his decline was due solely to age and wear and tear and nothing to do with the evolution of MMA.

In fact most Fedor GOAT advocates refuse to acknowledge any evolution in the sport and will happily educate you in that the pinnacle of the sport was in Pride.

So my question is:

If Fedor had the blue print why does everyone today practice wrestling and BJJ rather than Sambo and Judo?? And then how can you say the sport hasnt past him??

A lot of what made Fedor special though was that he was a very high level Judoka who shifted into MMA when he was young, how often do you see that happen these days? A lot of the reason why is IMHO that the UFC pays peanuts to new talent so only US wrestlers with no earning potential in their sport tend to shift across in large numbers anymore.

Ontop of that though I think his success also depended on both a natural striking ability AND training at an elite level. The problem with the "standard" MMA training that came to dominate the sport in years afterwards is that it tended to be based around teaching wrestlers(and the odd BJJ guy) "Boxing/MT for dummies", sticking to very basic techniques producing very stiff uncreative fighters. Fedor though was training with both Olympic level boxing coaches and world class kickboxers and taking on much higher level technique, indeed I think if you look at someone like Dillashaw today he reminds me very strongly of Fedor. He doesn't "pump the jab" which the average Sherdogger seems to think is the be all of striking ability but very strong upper body/head movement chasing opponents down and showing more creative technique like hand traps.

Dillashaw isnt training striking for dummies, he's going deeper and adapting it for MMA just as Fedor did.

 

[RiotWyatt]

Oh yeah. Khabib is a 2xCombat Sambo World Champ and Judo Black Belt.

He has some of the best grappling control the UFC has ever seen.

Vitaly Minakov is one of the best HW prospects and he is a Sambo Champion.

Oleksiy Oleynik has a Sambo background and is still choking out UFC prospects at 40+ years of age.

 

[Fesaine]

A lot of what made Fedor special though was that he was a very high level Judoka who shifted into MMA when he was young, how often do you see that happen these days? A lot of the reason why is IMHO that the UFC pays peanuts to new talent so only US wrestlers with no earning potential in their sport tend to shift across in large numbers anymore.

Ontop of that though I think his success also depended on both a natural striking ability AND training at an elite level. The problem with the "standard" MMA training that came to dominate the sport in years afterwards is that it tended to be based around teaching wrestlers(and the odd BJJ guy) "Boxing/MT for dummies", sticking to very basic techniques producing very stiff uncreative fighters. Fedor though was training with both Olympic level boxing coaches and world class kickboxers and taking on much higher level technique, indeed I think if you look at someone like Dillashaw today he reminds me very strongly of Fedor. He doesn't "pump the jab" which the average Sherdogger seems to think is the be all of striking ability but very strong upper body/head movement chasing opponents down and showing more creative technique like hand traps.

Dillashaw isnt training striking for dummies, he's going deeper and adapting it for MMA just as Fedor did.

Did you seriously just compare fedor striking to dillashaw? Are you serious? Dillashaw is like millions step above fedor in striking and fedor striking would consider average or even low in current mma if we don't count the disasters HW division. Take the weed off dude

 

[sapporo ichiban]

The premise is that Fedor was the GOAT and his decline was due solely to age and wear and tear and nothing to do with the evolution of MMA.

In fact most Fedor GOAT advocates refuse to acknowledge any evolution in the sport and will happily educate you in that the pinnacle of the sport was in Pride.

So my question is:

If Fedor had the blue print why does everyone today practice wrestling and BJJ rather than Sambo and Judo?? And then how can you say the sport hasnt past him??

You have never seen a successful judo or sambo player in mma?

Fedor fans do not refute the evolution of the sport as far as I have seen but opinions vary from person to person.

The argument for prime fedor and diminished Fedor is valid. If a person is not spinning a certain narrative to fit and agenda and really looks at the evidence then they may see that when he was on his tare early, half of his wins were by submission and the last one being 10 years ago. He has abandoned his well rounded game and turned into a headhunter. This is the case with many fighters as they slow down due to age and wear.

 

[IIIIIIII]

Jones would take him out in the first round... and that's prime vs. prime.

we'd never know. jones is too scared to fight at heavyweight.

 

[RiotWyatt]

Fedor was a small Heavyweight who was very well rounded. I would say on average the Heavyweights are better now, but the division has certainly not evolved at all. Guys like Hunt, Arlovski, Overeem are still factors in today's division and they have been KO'd a thousand times. It's a facade that people think the division is so much better today. Guys like Blaydes, Francis, Lesnar FFS......they are pretty basic fighters who happen to be very big.


Khabib practices Sambo and look where he is at. Fedor is 40 years old and he started to decline around 2008 because he abandoned his ground game. I think it was a pride thing (no pun intended) because he was just throwing bombs. He wasn't that old, but he has a ton of mileage on him. The guy has over 40 fights at Heavyweight along with Sambo fights too. His body broke down years ago in my opinion.

I always wanted to see more of Arlovski on the ground. He fell in love with his KO power. A guy of his athleticism and ability would’ve been scary had he embraced his grappling more.

 

[RiotWyatt]

For the record, we don’t say the sport hasn’t evolved. It certainly has. But at HW it’s devolved terribly.

 

[sapporo ichiban]

Jones would take him out in the first round... and that's prime vs. prime.

Based on that comment, you must be a kid so I will let it slide.

 

[moreorless87]

Did you seriously just compare fedor striking to dillashaw? Are you serious? Dillashaw is like millions step above fedor in striking and fedor striking would consider average or even low in current mma if we don't count the disasters HW division. Take the weed off dude

Thanks for that indepth analysis, Dana has some Kansas beach front property to sell you.

Kickboxing must be evolving very rapidly as well given that Fedor got the best of elite striker Mirko, not just a quick KO either. It must be wonderful to live in the world of UFC hype, maybe my shoes will have evolved into rocket skates by tomorrow.

 

[WHITE ANDERSON]

Fedor the absolute GOAT
he went undefeated for ten years
he is a natty russian
he is a devout christian and family man
he hangs out with putin

if d-level MMA athletes don't copy fedor's style, it just shows you that it takes a very unique talent to adopt the GOAT style, and not that there's something archaic about his style

 

[daniel san]

The "blue print"? If GSP and Machida had the blue print, why aren't there more karate fighters in the UFC? If Jones has the blue print, why isn't Struve the HW GOAT because of his size/reach? Just because someone is considered to be the GOAT by some or many doesn't mean that the way they fight is a universal solution for everyone else. Some fighters are stronger in boxing, kick boxing, BJJ, judo or wrestling. It is quite obvious that the sambo and judo mix worked very well for Fedor, there is nothing more to add than this thread being completely idiotic.

 

[Fight Professor]

Fedor is the GOAT under different rules in a ring.