Q: If Fedor is the GOAT

Yea hes been suspended because he was too afraid to fight without steroids, even after getting caught the first time he was still desperate to take them again because of how afraid he was of fighting clean, but tell me again how he wasn't too afraid to fight the HWs and kept fighting the guys he had a way longer reach over.

Fedor fought in a time of steroids as did Jones. Hell in Pride they wanted you to take them. When Fedor is being tested by USADA let me know? Jones passed steroid tests for years in the UFC. Fedor did NOT in Pride.. USADA is the difference maker.. Jones was a kid when he came to the UFC. And he became the best LHW of all time. He had legends fighting in his division at that time.

Rashad
Shogun
Rampage
Machida
He was set to fight Hendo
These are legends and he wanted to fight them..

The UFC has never had a great HW division, isn't that the Fedor fan argument anyway? That Fedor is the GOAT even having never come to the UFC because the UFC HW division stinks? So Jones needed to ignore all the studs at LHW to fight at HW why? He was only 27 when things began to fall apart personally for him.
 
What Fedor haters don't seem to realize is that Fedor has regressed like crazy. For the last several years he's been nothing more than a wild brawler who's slowed down considerably. He's lost almost everything that made him special in PRIDE.

Prime Fedor murders everybody. Anderson. Jones. Couture. Brock. DC. Stipe. Cain. It doesn't matter. They all get destroyed by Prime Fedor. (And this is them in their Primes too).

Unfortunately, modern Fedor is a shell of himself and would get murked by half of the nobodies currently in the UFC, let alone the top guys.
 
Because no one had or has the tools he had. He was well rounded in all aspects of mma.. Not just sambo and jubo. He had ko power, speed, awesome gnp, and takedowns, subs, and fastest transitions in hw. Its a different game at hw where u can be outweighed by 40 lbs or more and everyone has ko power. I wouldnt call him goat if he done masdive weight cuts like gsp, a silva to be the bigger guy at fight time. He didnt cut shit, or try to have a advantage because he was much larger than his opponent. He went out, fought whoever had balls to sign, and demolished them all.. Usually at thier own game. I. E. Nog on ground when nogs guard was a scary place, on feet w cro cop when he was ubet dangerous on feet. He could have taken mirko down and kept the fight there, but thats just not what the goat does..
 
What Fedor haters don't seem to realize is that Fedor has regressed like crazy. For the last several years he's been nothing more than a wild brawler who's slowed down considerably. He's lost almost everything that made him special in PRIDE.

Prime Fedor murders everybody. Anderson. Jones. Couture. Brock. DC. Stipe. Cain. It doesn't matter. They all get destroyed by Prime Fedor. (And this is them in their Primes too).

Unfortunately, modern Fedor is a shell of himself and would get murked by half of the nobodies currently in the UFC, let alone the top guys.

How would Fedor Murder Jones? With what? Nobody ever outgrappled Jones or knocked him out. Nobody ever came close to knocking him out. Jones had only 1 tough fight his whole career against Gus. Fedor also had tough ones. He did not roll over everyone with ease. He had to battle back..

Nobody ever did this to Jones.

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Closest is this and Jones got up and pushed him on the cage..

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LOL your reason of fedor got dillashaw level of striking because he 'outstruck' cro cop who's a kickboxing champ? Well then I guess frank Mir and Gonzaga also got dillashaw level of striking since they ko cro cop faster than fedor did. And remember Gohan saki? His kickboxing credentials is way higher than cro cop look how he did in ufc....
The k1 striking shit is dead when saki get knocked out.

Saki's kickboxing credentials are not higher than Cro Cop's.

Also, classic kickboxers need ring for good transition where you can't move away and evade their strikes in big round octagon, and where you can't wreslte them against the fence. Styles of Cro Cop and Wanderlei for example were much better for ring MMA than for cage UFC. They would close you in the corner, or stalk you with ring cutting and destroy you, and you had nowhere to run.

Key to Gonzaga's win were elbows, not his kick. He used elbows that were illegal in Pride and absolutely new thing to Cro Cop to stunn him and then threw a kick while CC was dizzy. Main thing for Mir was fence clinching that he used for 10 minutes to impose his size advantage and tire Cro Cop, and of course that did not exist in Pride ring MMA, and he used big space of octagon to manage distance with step forward-step backward.

And you can't cherry pick few loses of someone who has 50 pro MMA fights and compaire that to UFC guys with 15-20 fights in their entire career and try to make a point.
Cro Cop started losing after more than 50 pro K-1 and MMA bouts in world's strongest organiziations and big mileage and injuries.
Most important thing, Cro Cop did not lose in the same rules and environment where he was succesfull. He did not lose those fights in the ring and under Pride rules, he lost them in american unified rules and UFC cage that were bad for hist style and habbits and handicaped him.
 
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Sambo background, but wrestling and not Judo.


If we can agree that sport has evolved in the last decade then we can agree that DC's accomplishments > Fedor's.

The only way the counter argument makes sense is under the assumption that Fedor was fighting and dominating the sane level of opponents

Fighting is more complex than that. The predictability of outcomes is very difficult in the fight game, as well we should all know by now.
Who is to say that Fedor would not be in the exact same situation as DC right now if his career path had been identical? I would say the sport has evolved from the ufc 1 days but the evolution is not linear by any means and when we talk evolution it would be fair to break it down.
Certain gyms may have evolved more than others in their techniques but it comes down to the individual and how they put these techniques into practical use. How do you get a baseline measurement of the evolution of the sport?
The promotion? Sure they have gotten better at marketing and maybe creating the impression to some degree that everyone is so much better, but then you look at the aging hw fighters that are still viable members of the top 10 even today.

Goat is sort of like p4p, have fun debating that for the rest of your life. If you are of the opinion that DC has a better resume then good for you, telling me I must agree based on an argument that is debatable as to the actual extent of its effect on individual performance is not going anywhere with me. The numbers are difficult to ignore.
 
How would Fedor Murder Jones? With what? Nobody ever outgrappled Jones or knocked him out. Nobody ever came close to knocking him out. Jones had only 1 tough fight his whole career against Gus. Fedor also had tough ones. He did not roll over everyone with ease. He had to battle back..

Nobody ever did this to Jones.

1105951276_081ddf8786_o.gif

Because Jones never fought anybody like Prime Fedor; with the ferocity, brutality, and relentlessness of Prime Fedor.

Jones has tremendous physical attributes, but he doesn't fight like a monster unhinged. He fights a lot slower, even over opponents he physically dwarfs. I doubt very much that Jones would have been able to withstand the onslaught Fedor would have attacked him with. No one's ever brought the fight to him like Fedor used to bring the fight to people.

And also we must take into account Fedor's severe size disadvantage in most of his fights. He was a tiny HW and thus had to work harder to get his victories, yet he still dominated. Jones, on the other hand, has had a near universal physical advantage in practically every single category over all of his opponents, yet he still fights timid in a lot of his fights. And even with all those advantages, he still doesn't dominate like Fedor dominated.

Prime Fedor murks him.
 
Because Jones never fought anybody like Prime Fedor; with the ferocity, brutality, and relentlessness of Prime Fedor.

Jones has tremendous physical attributes, but he doesn't fight like a monster unhinged. He fights a lot slower, even over opponents he physically dwarfs. I doubt very much that Jones would have been able to withstand the onslaught Fedor would have attacked him with. No one's ever brought the fight to him like Fedor used to bring the fight to people.

And also we must take into account Fedor's severe size disadvantage in most of his fights. He was a tiny HW and thus had to work harder to get his victories, yet he still dominated. Jones, on the other hand, has had a near universal physical advantage in practically every single category over all of his opponents, yet he still fights timid in a lot of his fights. And even with all those advantages, he still doesn't dominate like Fedor dominated.

Prime Fedor murks him.

I can't agree at all.. DC came at him twice with all that ferocity and it got him nowhere. He was outgrappled and outworked in fight 1, and he was knocked out in fight 2. Jones has so many tools, and adapts like no other when he fights. He changes it up on the fly.
 
Nobody ever did this to Jones.

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Lol randleman was super juiced up, and it didn't even phase fedor. But thats your reason for jones being better? you don't know much about MMA do you. Styles make fights son


Fedor fought in a time of steroids as did Jones. Hell in Pride they wanted you to take them. When Fedor is being tested by USADA let me know? Jones passed steroid tests for years in the UFC. Fedor did NOT in Pride.. USADA is the difference maker.. Jones was a kid when he came to the UFC. And he became the best LHW of all time. He had legends fighting in his division at that time.

Rashad
Shogun
Rampage
Machida
He was set to fight Hendo
These are legends and he wanted to fight them..

The UFC has never had a great HW division, isn't that the Fedor fan argument anyway? That Fedor is the GOAT even having never come to the UFC because the UFC HW division stinks? So Jones needed to ignore all the studs at LHW to fight at HW why? He was only 27 when things began to fall apart personally for him.


Jones was on steroids in an organization that didn't allow it, thus fighting clean fighters on steroids, Fedor fought where steroids was allowed and still never tested for steroids in the US. Ones a cheater and another isn't. Theres a reason why fedor wins the goat polls even though Jones did win goat of the cheaters in my poll
 
Jones was on steroids in an organization that didn't allow it, thus fighting clean fighters on steroids

WTF are you talking about? He never failed any drug test until USADA.. Nothing. He went 16-0 essentially with all passed drug tests. USADA came later and the trouble began for Jones..

Fedor fought where steroids was allowed and still never tested for steroids in the US. Ones a cheater and another isn't. Theres a reason why fedor wins the goat polls even though Jones did win goat of the cheaters in my poll

Fedor did not even pass the same tests as Jones during his prime dude. He passed nothing. Jones was using and so were a lot of people USADA changed that. Fedor never dealt with USADA. Still isn't.. Off the bat Jones beat Vitor who was taking enough TRT at the time to choke an Elephant.. Sonnen was a walking PED experiment..
 
it seems that fedor was ahead of the HW division even until today. Most of the HWs still cannot do it all Fedor.
 
Fedor fought in a time of steroids as did Jones. Hell in Pride they wanted you to take them. When Fedor is being tested by USADA let me know? Jones passed steroid tests for years in the UFC. Fedor did NOT in Pride.. USADA is the difference maker.. Jones was a kid when he came to the UFC. And he became the best LHW of all time. He had legends fighting in his division at that time.

Rashad
Shogun
Rampage
Machida
He was set to fight Hendo
These are legends and he wanted to fight them..

The UFC has never had a great HW division, isn't that the Fedor fan argument anyway? That Fedor is the GOAT even having never come to the UFC because the UFC HW division stinks? So Jones needed to ignore all the studs at LHW to fight at HW why? He was only 27 when things began to fall apart personally for him.

Nobody cares about roids in Pride because it was not against the rules. The difference is Jones is a cheater and Fedor is not.
 
WTF are you talking about? He never failed any drug test until USADA.. Nothing. He went 16-0 essentially with all passed drug tests. USADA came later and the trouble began for Jones..



Fedor did not even pass the same tests as Jones during his prime dude. He passed nothing. Jones was using and so were a lot of people USADA changed that. Fedor never dealt with USADA. Still isn't.. Off the bat Jones beat Vitor who was taking enough TRT at the time to choke an Elephant.. Sonnen was a walking PED experiment..
You're bragging about jones beating sonnen and vitor, ok.

Lol wtf are you talking about? After USADA(stronger testing) jones tested twice for steroids, who else in the LHW division tested positive? Jones was on steroids the whole time beating people not on steroids. Did you not read my post?


Nobody cares about roids in Pride because it was not against the rules. The difference is Jones is a cheater and Fedor is not.
Trying to explain that to him lol
 
Nobody cares about roids in Pride because it was not against the rules. The difference is Jones is a cheater and Fedor is not.

Nobody cares about steroids in the UFC before USADA either..
 
You're bragging about jones beating sonnen and vitor, ok.

Lol wtf are you talking about? After USADA(stronger testing) jones tested twice for steroids, who else in the LHW division tested? Jones was on steroids the whole time beating people not on steroids. Did you not read my post?



Trying to explain that to him lol

Jones is 23-0 dude. I can brag about a lot. DC is better than Fedor and most would agree. 2 wins against DC. And you assume everyone was clean because they did not all flunk post USADA. That is idiotic. Sonnen must have been clean. Vitor too..
 
Jones is 23-0 dude. I can brag about a lot. DC is better than Fedor and most would agree. 2 wins against DC. And you assume everyone was clean because they did not all flunk post USADA. That is idiotic.
Yes 2 wins against against a way older DC that he needed steroids for, and a whole career with a big asterik on all his wins. Very much to brag about over the fighter most people vote as goat.

What you need some help LOL???
Were trying to tell you but you aren't getting it, now your getting amped up because people don't agree with you. Relax bruh
 
If I'm not mistaken, even the vast majority of fighters recognize Fedor as the GOAT.
 
Yes 2 wins against against a way older DC that he needed steroids for, and a whole career with a big asterik on all his wins. Very much to brag about over the fighter most people vote as goat.

Sherdog is not most. Fedor is all about Nostalgia man. A lot of fighters grew up rooting for the guy. They love him, I get it. But his strength of schedule, lack of any UFC career, falling apart in his early 30's.. Not the GOAT..
 
The premise is that Fedor was the GOAT and his decline was due solely to age and wear and tear and nothing to do with the evolution of MMA.

In fact most Fedor GOAT advocates refuse to acknowledge any evolution in the sport and will happily educate you in that the pinnacle of the sport was in Pride.

So my question is:

If Fedor had the blue print why does everyone today practice wrestling and BJJ rather than Sambo and Judo?? And then how can you say the sport hasnt past him??
Not many Sambo gyms in the top UFC markets. The UFC also prefer only foreigners that Are good talkers.

If the UFC cared nothing about marketing, the top ten would be flooded with Eastern european guys with skills like Khabib And Fedor. Guys that didn’t look the right way And talk the right way, but Are amazing fighters.
 
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