Punch As Hard As You Can But The Bag Doesn't Move?

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stuartSan

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There's this statement I overheard my instructor asking his trainee instructor.

"I want you to hit the bag as hard as you can, with impact. But the bag should not move. If you learn to do this, your students will love you. If you don't, they'll hate you."

Well needless to say the trainee has been busting his brains trying to figure it out. I have too.

Has anyone come across such a question? What's the answer if you did?
 
It sounds like you have a good instructor.

What he is seeing is that the trainee is "pushing" the bag - if it were a body this would be a very superficial strike. What he is trying to teach is how to "leave the energy in the bag" rather than just pushing it. When you push it you are eliminating the posibility of combinations because you are destroying your distance.

A really good kick, for example, will not "push" the bag as much as it will "fold" the bag in two.

There are are a lot of drills and visullizations that can help this. Many say "punch through the target" or "punch through the bag" this is wrong. I want you to punch "inside the bag" imagine you are punching punching to make the front of the bag touch the backside of the bag without moving it. Once you "feel" this sensation imagine creating a "starburst" with your energy - I know this sounds crazy but you can actually visualize damaging your opponent's body.

I hate the internet for this reason - I should really be standing in front of you for you to understand this and feel what I am talking about. I can punch you 6 times and each one will feel different. All of them hurt but I can punch the exact same spot but make it hurt "differently".
 
Without having been present I can only speculate.
My assumption is that he was saying to hit the bag and not push it. Your strike should be hard, fast and focused. Why would you be hitting 12" past the bag (which would push it) when you really want to focus your power 3" or 4" into your target (hitting it)? Someone who has the bag swinging back & forth isn't putting as much kinetic energy onto the primary target as someone (who is punching correctly) who has the bag "jumping" and barely swinging.
 
ssssmashing said:
It sounds like you have a good instructor.

What he is seeing is that the trainee is "pushing" the bag - if it were a body this would be a very superficial strike. What he is trying to teach is how to "leave the energy in the bag" rather than just pushing it. When you push it you are eliminating the posibility of combinations because you are destroying your distance.

A really good kick, for example, will not "push" the bag as much as it will "fold" the bag in two.

There are are a lot of drills and visullizations that can help this. Many say "punch through the target" or "punch through the bag" this is wrong. I want you to punch "inside the bag" imagine you are punching punching to make the front of the bag touch the backside of the bag without moving it. Once you "feel" this sensation imagine creating a "starburst" with your energy - I know this sounds crazy but you can actually visualize damaging your opponent's body.

I hate the internet for this reason - I should really be standing in front of you for you to understand this and feel what I am talking about. I can punch you 6 times and each one will feel different. All of them hurt but I can punch the exact same spot but make it hurt "differently".
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Sorry for my redundent post but I was typing it at the same time as you were.
 
philong said:
Sorry for my redundent post but I was typing it at the same time as you were.
Click to expand...

lol I was reading your post and thinking that is probably a much clearer explanation. nice post.
 
ssssmashing said:
It sounds like you have a good instructor.

What he is seeing is that the trainee is "pushing" the bag - if it were a body this would be a very superficial strike. What he is trying to teach is how to "leave the energy in the bag" rather than just pushing it. When you push it you are eliminating the posibility of combinations because you are destroying your distance.

A really good kick, for example, will not "push" the bag as much as it will "fold" the bag in two.

There are are a lot of drills and visullizations that can help this. Many say "punch through the target" or "punch through the bag" this is wrong. I want you to punch "inside the bag" imagine you are punching punching to make the front of the bag touch the backside of the bag without moving it. Once you "feel" this sensation imagine creating a "starburst" with your energy - I know this sounds crazy but you can actually visualize damaging your opponent's body.

I hate the internet for this reason - I should really be standing in front of you for you to understand this and feel what I am talking about. I can punch you 6 times and each one will feel different. All of them hurt but I can punch the exact same spot but make it hurt "differently".
Click to expand...
It sound like nor you nor his instructor have the correct Idea behind the physics of striking.
 
ssssmashing said:
lol I was reading your post and thinking that is probably a much clearer explanation. nice post.
Click to expand...
I agree with you that it is hard to explain things on the internet sometimes (I actually thought your post put it clearer than I did). There is usually some guy with minimal training who misunderstands and then wants to argue about it. :rolleyes: This is why I don't usually respond to this type of post, that and the person should actually be asking their instructor (since they're paying him to teach them).
 
IMO he's talking about a certain style of punch used in sparring or TMA drills. In this style you ideally throw hard techniques at your opponent but you don't try to hurt them at all. I've trained in this philosophy and the way it was explained to me was to punch the opponent's uniform and not their body. Not saying this is the best way to practice, but it's one school of thought.
 
What the fuck, thats stupid shit, the fucking bag will move, regardless,
 
Dude, that is a basic striking training practice. Especially if you are "pushing" your punches. The instructor just wants him to "snap" his strikes more. Its complicated, but it can be done. Of course the bag will move some, but it shouldn't move like crazy. That is the point. The instructor knows what he is talking about.
 
300-400 pound Fairtex bag=Bag will not move much
 
Kyryllo said:
It sound like nor you nor his instructor have the correct Idea behind the physics of striking.
Click to expand...

I do not teach physics. I teach people how to punch.
 
Kyryllo said:
It sound like nor you nor his instructor have the correct Idea behind the physics of striking.
Click to expand...

Actually a really good kick *will* fold the bag. Depending on weight the fold can be quite significant. I believe people refer to this as having good penetration of a technique.

Of course total fold and no movement is an unreachable ideal. Especially with a light bag of 50 lbs (like the one I've seen you kick). What impressed me about your kicks was the 'pop' of the bag...which is similar to penetration on a larger bag. Rather than just moving the bag the bag would pop into motion. That is a good indication of your speed and power (which was impressive).

On a heavier bag I would expect that same explosiveness and power would have translated into penetration.
 
Jiu-Jitsu Cop said:
Oh yeah now we are talking a real Thai bag. The type we should be working out on.
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In the early 1990's I got a bag from work (construction) that held spec mix (specified mortar for block / brick) that was 4'-0" high and 6'-0" through (it also had a spout on the bottom that was about 2.5' long & 1'-0" thick) and had 4 mounting points. We put it in the gym and filled it with rags / sawdust. You could fit 6 people at a time working on it and it wouldn't move. I have no idea what it weighed, we hung it first and then filled it. I left it there when I moved since it was way too large for my personal use.
 
Doug Makenzie said:
Well he said the bag should not move
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Good day,eh.
i think you have to appreciate the context - he was not being instructed, he overheard someone else being instructed. I believe he merely misunderstood what the teacher was saying. a normal 120 or 150 lb. bag will move if you just touch it.
 
TapSD said:
300-400 pound Fairtex bag=Bag will not move much
Click to expand...
Depending on whether it will move or not depends on the type of bag as well.

A Thai bag is longer and less dense, so it will fold easily.

A teardrop bag in small and Very dense, so it will NOT fold
 
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