Prime Ken Shamrock vs Alexander Gustafsson

Ken's reach disadvantage would be enormous and he'd get KO'd.

That said, you have to put some things in perspective. Ken was 29 in 1993 when he started no holds barred fighting. Typical fighter primes are from 27-33. His prime lasted until 1996 when he was 23-5 and beaten some very good names.
 
Gustafson jabs him up to a unanimous decision.
 
MyEnglishIsPeperoni said:
mma/boxing doesnt envolve like swimming and other stuff, but yeah ... the support to back then is like day and night, but doesnt change the fact, that a skilled guy from back then, could be today as good as the others or even much better.

if you compare boxing (ali/holyfield/tyson) today HW boxers are bigger/stronger (it depends) and maybe a little faster, but i doubt that. technically they suck.
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Don't lump boxing into this. He asked about MMA.

MMA is a multifaceted sport that is constantly evolving and changing. Look at MMA 15 years ago vs look at boxing or swimming 15 years ago. MMA looks complete different vs swimming and boxing which look identical to what they are today.

Yeah, those boxers and swimmers are faster stronger, but that is more due to education in training and diet and health.

MMA fighters are different altogether compared to when Ken was in his prime.
 
Dbreiden83080 said:
Gus knocks him the hell out. Violently..
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Ehhhhh, I doubt Gus would want to get close for Shamrock to latch on to one of those long limbs and start twisting. Gus will just stick and move all fight.
 
Lay N Pray 101 said:
Ehhhhh, I doubt Gus would want to get close for Shamrock to latch on to one of those long limbs and start twisting. Gus will just stick and move all fight.
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Maybe. But if this is 5 rounds he make Shamrock's face unrecognizable by the end. Striking is just another planet..
 
Draxton said:
Don't lump boxing into this. He asked about MMA.

MMA is a multifaceted sport that is constantly evolving and changing. Look at MMA 15 years ago vs look at boxing or swimming 15 years ago. MMA looks complete different vs swimming and boxing which look identical to what they are today.

Yeah, those boxers and swimmers are faster stronger, but that is more due to education in training and diet and health.

MMA fighters are different altogether compared to when Ken was in his prime.
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MMA/boxing they dont envolve like for example swimming ... jesus. ofc ufc 1 isnt the same as today ... lmao. most of them did fight for the first time and had probably a part time job. the support has envolved. HW divison of boxing today sucks compared to back then ... or short: they are just much bigger. PED and new "technology" makes it possible.

as is said above --> the support (money/training etc.) is like day and night. Ali against klitschko --> the chances are really good for ali. now put ali in a modern training camp --> i would bet my mother, that ali would made klitschko his bitch.
 
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MyEnglishIsPeperoni said:
MMA/boxing doesnt envolve like for example swimming ... jesus. ofc ufc 1 isnt the same as today ... lmao. most of them did fight for the first time and had probably a part time job. the support has envolved. HW divison of boxing today sucks compared to back then ... or short: they are just much bigger. PED new and "technology" makes it possible.

as is said above --> the support (money/training etc.) is like day and night. Ali against klitschko --> the chances are really good for ali. now put ali in a modern training camp --> i would bet my mother, that ali would made klitschko his bitch.
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You're still wrong.

MMA DOES evolve.

It's boxing and swimming that doesn't change. The fact that a boxer from decades ago can beat a modern era champ (prime vs prime) proves that.

A top MMA fighter from 15-20 years ago would greatly struggle with a top 15 fighter nowadays.

That proves that MMA is changing and boxing isn't.
 
The sport has progressed a long way since Ken's day. I'd pick Gus over anyone from the mid to late 90s, even Mark Kerr or Coleman. I recently looked at Kerr's record (in another thread discussion) and realized he had almost no notable wins. He crushed a bunch of cans like Ranger Stott, then lost to Igor V., then went on a huge decline. Even prime Mark Coleman lost to Mo Smith, a kickboxer who knew just enough to survive on the ground. He beat Coleman in a decision via better cardio and leg kicks later in the fight.

Remember, Gus gave both Jones and Cormier all they could handle for 5 rounds and took both of them down.
 
Ken was an extremely strong guy with great submission skills. People who say he would lose to WWs aren't giving him enough credit.

I didn't follow MMA back than but, as far as I know, BJJ was relatively unknown in the early UFC days. I think that's a large part of the reason why Ken wasn't able to beat Royce. Royce, with his gi, was pretty much seen as a ticking time bomb.

When he came back in the early 2000s, Ken was pretty shot but he did show an ability to adapt to the modern era through improved striking. Then he completely fell off the wagon.

If Ken was younger and trained at a good gym, I think he would do well at MW or LHW in the modern era. With that being said, Gus is an exceptional striker. He has come a long way from getting schooled by Phil Davis. I would expect him maintain range and pick Ken apart before eventually going in for the finish.

Gus by TKO.
 
TS name rantajuoppo is Finnish and means "a beach drunk" in English. Just saying.
 
rantajuoppo said:
Who takes this? Shamrock was an absolute beast in his prime.
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When was his prime? When he was being beaten by Royce who he outweighed by 30 pounds?

Ken SHAMrock is the most overrated fighter in the history of combat sports.
 
kingghidrah said:
I think Shamrock's long period of suck (he sucked after his pro-wrestling stint, the only part most Sherdoggers have seen) has affected people's notions of how close a fight could be. What about this, then:

Bas Rutten vs. Gus
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Gus would have to resort to grappling. Bas was a superior striker. He would low kick the shit out of Gus' legs and then Gus would be forced to shoot for a takedown. Gus would probably beat him on the ground but if he stood with Bas too long he might get KTFO.
 
mma_genius said:
When was his prime? When he was being beaten by Royce who he outweighed by 30 pounds?

Ken SHAMrock is the most overrated fighter in the history of combat sports.
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Typical Sherdiot. Ken had 1 year of Pancrase experience at UFC 1. He may have been in his physical prime, but surely not in his NHB prime (it was called NHB back then, not MMA...I'm sure you didn't know that either). Ken's NHB prime was 1995-1996, just before he left for pro wrestling. He had a draw with Royce in the rematch, and would've won if they had judges. When he beat Dan Severn in their first fight (1995), he was the best fighter in the world--even if it was just for a year or two. Like a lot of other fighters, he progressed a lot in the first few years of NHB.

When he came back to MMA, he was well past his physical prime plus he had pro wrestling injuries. Also, he left the sport while it was still evolving quickly, missing 4 crucial years. He basically had no chance at that point. The only way he could've won most of his fights would be taking the Dan Severn route--fighting a bunch of journeymen at small regional events. Instead he chose to fight guys like prime Tito, Don Frye, Fujita, etc.
 
Typrune Goatley said:
Gus would have to resort to grappling. Bas was a superior striker. He would low kick the shit out of Gus' legs and then Gus would be forced to shoot for a takedown. Gus would probably beat him on the ground but if he stood with Bas too long he might get KTFO.
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Based on what? Bas never fought any top strikers of his day (Igor V, young Belfort, Wand, Ruas, etc.). The only good one he beat was Mo Smith, and that was by submission. Plus he spent most of his time in the open palm striking world of Pancrase...that's why Tank called him a slapboxer.

The level of strikers Gus has fought is much, much higher than Bas. You can't compare them.

Bas fought a whopping total of 3 MMA fights under full contact striking rules (not open-handed junk). Think about that. And none of us his opponents were technical, diverse strikers. One of them was freakin' Warpath.
 
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Gus' TDD decides it for him. No contest on the feet.
 
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