Politico declares war on electoral college: calls it a national security threat

Only tax payers should vote. Simple.
 
Gutter Chris said:
Who did you think voted ,children and foreigners ?
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How about the 40+ million on welfare and people getting child tax credits that have a negative tax balance every year. People who rely on government redistribution will overwhelmingly vote themselves a raise (or empty promise of a raise) regardless of the detriment to the society as a whole.
Being on the tax roll doesn't make someone a tax payer.
 
lilelvis said:
How about the 40+ million on welfare and people getting child tax credits that have a negative tax balance every year. People who rely on government redistribution will overwhelmingly vote themselves a raise (or empty promise of a raise) regardless of the detriment to the society as a whole.
Being on the tax roll doesn't make someone a tax payer.
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Oh for christ sake.

everyone votes to try to rig the game in their favor the rich included and what you are proposes would make for a country full or lords and serfs. look at all the giveaways the big boys have gotten the last 50 years and you want to give them even more? No fuckin wonder we need to make america great again

Calm it down buddy america gives all its citizens a voice not just those who won the crotch lottery
 
HereticBD said:
I was going to point out the whole electoral college giving big states an advantage anyways, but I figure I'd let you contradict yourself.



The mere suggestion of getting rid of the electoral college, because your team lost because of it, is sore-loser-ish. That notion wouldn't even enter your mind, if roles were reversed. You'd instead be "educating" everyone on why the electoral college is one of the most important institutions in American politics, and saves us from the highly dangerous mob rule. You guys are so predictable, it hurts.

Face it, you guys are just whining, and want to change the rules of the game you lost. It's pathetic.
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Well, the problem is I'm not "you guys" on this one. And you can kinda jam your team sports view on this back up your ass where it came from, if that seems fair to both you and your asshole. I have views about advantages and disadvantages of electoral college vs popular vote, and I don't think it's clear that one system favors a set of ideological beliefs over another. Both parties would adjust to the popular vote system regardless of who took an early lead. It's hard to predict what effects that would have on policy and ideology, because it could be a moderating or a radicalizing influence. Populism comes with higher variance.

Pointing out that the electoral college result doesn't match the popular vote result is good. It allows us to reflect on whether it's right to allow small states to have more influence per capita than large ones, which is the case today. And there are varying ideas about the relative value of statehood- in other words, how much is it worth to be a member state? Clearly Alaska should not have as much effect on national policy as California, and New Mexico should not have as much influence as Texas, generally speaking. But, on the other side, we can't completely shut out member states of the union. Hence, the Electoral College (wow, isn't that magical?!).

I think our system works reasonably well and is in the ballpark of being ideal for a republic, but you can't deny that it's moving away from that sweet spot when a presidential candidate can lose by millions while winning the election- a result that is real rather than theoretical. As Mick pointed out earlier, the Trump rabble were talking down the electoral college as if it were Satan itself, which is fucking hilarious considering the large advantage that Republicans enjoy because of it. That was just Trump pre-making a bad excuse, but his fans ate it up. And now they're silent as fucking church mice on the electoral college. They now kind of understand what it actually is, and they can only pretend not to like it as a result.

Finally- and one of the only (the only?) person on the left in here who has been saying this consistently- there is no guarantee that Hillary would have won a popular vote in a popular vote election. We can't really predict that, and speculation on the topic is nearly worthless, other than it's safe to say that the race would have been competitive in either kind of system.


You make a lot of bad posts directed against me, and you associate me with views that I don't hold. You're generally a really bad and thoughtless poster in that way. You should do better.
 
Gutter Chris said:
Oh for christ sake.

everyone votes to try to rig the game in their favor the rich included and what you are proposes would make for a country full or lords and serfs. look at all the giveaways the big boys have gotten the last 50 years and you want to give them even more? No fuckin wonder we need to make america great again

Calm it down buddy america gives all its citizens a voice not just those who won the crotch lottery
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I'm calm.

Maybe you can vote yourself a new laptop for ultimate Sherdogging, or should I send you a gift card?
 
lilelvis said:
Maybe you can vote yourself a new laptop for ultimate Sherdogging, or should I send you a gift card?
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Thats a pretty irrational stance for a calm person to take and I think one could only reach such a conclusion after many a stewing session about takers

Ive never seen a ballot initiative that said lets send ol gutter a new computer for me to vote on but ill keep my eyes peeled

I dont need your gift card im employed and do ok but I do appreciate the offer friend
 
Gutter Chris said:
Thats a pretty irrational stance for a calm person to take and I think one could only reach such a conclusion after many a stewing session about takers

Ive never seen a ballot initiative that said lets send ol gutter a new computer for me to vote on but ill keep my eyes peeled

I dont need your gift card im employed and do ok but I do appreciate the offer friend
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Right on.

I simply believe in the American Ideal of self sufficiency. I am a fuckedup mix of race, started with nothing, busted my balls and made a pretty decent life. I believe others can do it too. The entitlement state is way more of a Lords and Surfs situation than the free market.

I fact, my personal (anecdotal) experience of striving for success in this world found stifling government bureaucracy to be WAY more of a challenge to overcome than discrimination (red-headed black) or any free market forces.

In my bigoted opinion, if you aren't smart enough to feed yourself and your kids or to get an I.D we shouldn't let you starve, but you shouldn't vote either.
 
lilelvis said:
How about the 40+ million on welfare and people getting child tax credits that have a negative tax balance every year. People who rely on government redistribution will overwhelmingly vote themselves a raise (or empty promise of a raise) regardless of the detriment to the society as a whole.
Being on the tax roll doesn't make someone a tax payer.
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So you think Republicans shouldn't be allowed to vote?
 
Rational Poster said:
So you think Republicans shouldn't be allowed to vote?
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I made it pretty clear. I don't care who you are. If you can't feed yourself and your kids or get an I.D, we shouldn't let you starve but you shouldn't vote either.

LOL at "Republican". I suppose that's because I value individual freedoms, the free market and actually believe that anyone can better themselves when properly motivated. I've also witnessed the Government fuck up everything they touch, so I know they're not very smart. Politics are just another bullshit religion.
 
lilelvis said:
I made it pretty clear. I don't care who you are. If you can't feed yourself and your kids or get an I.D, we shouldn't let you starve but you shouldn't vote either.

LOL at "Republican". I suppose that's because I value individual freedoms, the free market and actually believe that anyone can better themselves when properly motivated. I've also witnessed the Government fuck up everything they touch, so I know they're not very smart. Politics are just another bullshit religion.
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This is the biggest cop out bullshit I've ever seen.

"The government fucks up everything they touch"

No only is this not true, it's intellectually lazy.
 
Rational Poster said:
This is the biggest cop out bullshit I've ever seen.

"The government fucks up everything they touch"

No only is this not true, it's intellectually lazy.
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You can believe whatever you like, and so can I.... Time will tell.
 
lilelvis said:
You can believe whatever you like, and so can I.... Time will tell.
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Time has already told us that government has been involved in and handled hundreds of projects and tasks that have been incredibly successful.
 
Rational Poster said:
Time has already told us that government has been involved in and handled hundreds of projects and tasks that have been incredibly successful.
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Slowly, with staggering waste.
You and I measure success differently.
It's ok though, you are a special friend RP.
 
Scheme said:
Also, it seems the counties that are most left leaning are the ones furthest away from the agriculture. Wonder why?
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Large metropolitan areas will usually be democrat because of population density. When you have people rubbing elbows with each other and trying to get along, there are more problems to deal with, and the "hands-off" notion of conservative thinking doesn't work.

Look at it this way. When you have a million commuters trying to get from point A to point B, there are going to be a lot more traffic regulations. In a rural area, one stop sign in the center of town is enough.

You have the right to swing your arms in any direction you want, but your freedom ends where someone else's face begins. In a highly populated environment, freedoms will most definitely be curbed, and more compromise is necessary.
 
The ScorpioN said:
I remember @oleDirtyBast4rd pulling a Hilary and evolving his position on it.
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I did make a thread, and learned a lot through it. I was griping as a conservative in California. To me it seemed like a lot of people didn't vote because unless you were in a battleground state, it didn't' really matter much and left you feeling without a voice. Every state is responsible for themselves and vote that way too. Whats the problem?
 
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