Pac vs Loma

[aries]

I've read these far-fetched conspiracy theories and speculation as to why Loma's opponents are quitting. It was addressed at the Loma-Rigo press conference when a reporter (Fat Dan, actually) asked Loma why his last 4 consecutive opponents had quit on him between rounds. He specifically asked if Loma was breaking them mentally or physically, to which he replied, "both", as they're not mutually exclusive. It likely is a combination with the mental side being the primary key to it.

He starts by working on them mentally and, as you know, gradually increases the pace as the fight progresses. By the time he even starts to apply pressure consistently and impose any real degree of physicality, barring Sosa (who he beat the hell out of through accumulation) & Marriaga (who was bullied), they appear to have already checked out mentally. Two, arguably three of the Featherweights he fought also managed to find a way out against him so this really isn't "new". They did it during the fight instead of in between rounds; Jose Ramirez (debatable quit job), Gamalier Rodriguez (title defense) & Romulo Koasicha (his last title defense at Featherweight). The last two undoubtedly quit because they were that thoroughly outclassed and getting outpaced. These incidents weren't viewed as quit jobs per se because it was so evident that they weren't top fighters anywhere near the level he was operating at the time.

Furthermore, a number of his own sparring partners that he pays for work, naturally, are also being sent home early. Mark Kriegel from ESPN spent several weeks in Oxnard, California for Loma's last camp. This was his personal account of how Loma's intense sparring sessions went down.



A father's touch: The relentless regimen of Vasyl Lomachenko

Nice post. Yeah when you put it like that it's almost surprising that Loma doesn't have MORE opponents quitting on him then have done.

I like the account from Kriegel, I haven't read that before. Interesting to note that he now fouls back straight away. The Salido fight obviously etched it's way into his brain lol. TJ Dillashaw said something similar in regard to Lomachenko's work rate being extremely high that he found it overwhelming. And I don't think Lomachenko was going anywhere near 100% on TJ.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Nice post. Yeah when you put it like that it's almost surprising that Loma doesn't have MORE opponents quitting on him then have done.

I like the account from Kriegel, I haven't read that before. Interesting to note that he now fouls back straight away. The Salido fight obviously etched it's way into his brain lol. TJ Dillashaw said something similar in regard to Lomachenko's work rate being extremely high that he found it overwhelming. And I don't think Lomachenko was going anywhere near 100% on TJ.

TJ also said that Loma was just way too fast. Here's a trainer that quickly analyzed their sparring footage clips to illustrate something he felt inclined to point out. This trainer is known for trolling on YouTube but he does train some world class fighters; Boxers, Kickboxers, MT fighters & MMA fighters. Barry Robinson from A Million Styles Boxing (AMSB) is who I'm talking about. Okamoto (the ESPN MMA journalist) asked Loma if he would take it easy on TJ in their sparring session.

From all of the sparring accounts I've heard and read about online, Loma was maybe going a quarter of what he's capable of. He spars boxers as high as Middleweight where he's forced to go VERY hard with them. The video clips released reveal that he was mostly feeling him out and showing that he could outmaneuver him with ease, beating him positionally at every turn. Several shots (as in a few) that appeared to land from TJ didn't when you watch it in slow motion. The one shown here grazes him, he didn't respect TJ's power or boxing ability. TJ was too predictable, he was forcing all of his punches which were very labored and thrown hard, and he looked really clumsy in there compared to Loma.


Featherweight Loma in late 2013 at Roach's Wild Card gym

 

[Seano]

Well if fighters quit like that because of frustration then I'm surprised none of Floyds opponents quit against him. Why is it only Loma? With all the fights I've seen where a fighter is broken mentally or frustrated why haven't they quit yet Lomas past 4 fighters have quit? Just seems weird. Even me someone who's not a boxer. If I'm getting frustrated I'm still fighting till the end especially with the money I know I'm making BUT if someone offered more money to quit I can see how that might be appealing.

Floyd fought better opposition for one.

Two, he's not a guy who makes people quit, stylistically. He's a guy that makes opponents think they have chances over and over then proves to them they don't.

 

[Minowafanatic]

Well if fighters quit like that because of frustration then I'm surprised none of Floyds opponents quit against him. Why is it only Loma? With all the fights I've seen where a fighter is broken mentally or frustrated why haven't they quit yet Lomas past 4 fighters have quit? Just seems weird. Even me someone who's not a boxer. If I'm getting frustrated I'm still fighting till the end especially with the money I know I'm making BUT if someone offered more money to quit I can see how that might be appealing.

Lomachenko applies pressure and takes very dominant angles against guys and throws punches from them, and when the opponent is in those moments, they will be cognizant of the fact that they can't do anything to Lomachenko and they can't properly protect themselves either. If someone can take those kind of positions on you, it makes you feel like you're a rookie, whereas normally even when you're getting beat up in a fight there's an illusion of possibility there that you might be able to land something or roll the dice. If Lomachenko's hitting you at an angle where you're not even properly facing him, then that illusion isn't there anymore, because you can't punch from where you are, you have to keep resetting. And in the latter parts of Mayweather's career, he didn't put pressure on people, he'd just be shutting guys out and pot shotting them, showing them opportunities and then taking them away and landing a counter. While that's frustrating, that punishment you're receiving at his hands is also at least partly determined by your own output, plus Mayweather's less aggressive and less busy than Lomachenko. It just makes it a different kind of fight.

 

[aries]

TJ also said that Loma was just way too fast. Here's a trainer that quickly analyzed their sparring footage clips to illustrate something he felt inclined to point out. This trainer is known for trolling on YouTube but he does train some world class fighters; Boxers, Kickboxers, MT fighters & MMA fighters. Barry Robinson from A Million Styles Boxing (AMSB) is who I'm talking about. Okamoto (the ESPN MMA journalist) asked Loma if he would take it easy on TJ in their sparring session.

From all of the sparring accounts I've heard and read about online, Loma was maybe going a quarter of what he's capable of. He spars boxers as high as Middleweight where he's forced to go VERY hard with them. The video clips released reveal that he was mostly feeling him out and showing that he could outmaneuver him with ease, beating him positionally at every turn. Several shots (as in a few) that appeared to land from TJ didn't when you watch it in slow motion. The one shown here grazes him, he didn't respect TJ's power or boxing ability. TJ was too predictable, he was forcing all of his punches which were very labored and thrown hard, and he looked really clumsy in there compared to Loma.


Featherweight Loma in late 2013 at Roach's Wild Card gym

Yeah I remember TJ remarking on the speed of Loma. It must have been quite overwhelming for him lol It was pretty plain that he was toying with TJ in there.

Who's the guy in the stills getting dropped by Loma?

 

[aries]

Lomachenko applies pressure and takes very dominant angles against guys and throws punches from them, and when the opponent is in those moments, they will be cognizant of the fact that they can't do anything to Lomachenko and they can't properly protect themselves either. If someone can take those kind of positions on you, it makes you feel like you're a rookie, whereas normally even when you're getting beat up in a fight there's an illusion of possibility there that you might be able to land something or roll the dice. If Lomachenko's hitting you at an angle where you're not even properly facing him, then that illusion isn't there anymore, because you can't punch from where you are, you have to keep resetting. And in the latter parts of Mayweather's career, he didn't put pressure on people, he'd just be shutting guys out and pot shotting them, showing them opportunities and then taking them away and landing a counter. While that's frustrating, that punishment you're receiving at his hands is also at least partly determined by your own output, plus Mayweather's less aggressive and less busy than Lomachenko. It just makes it a different kind of fight.

Good post I think you summed it up pretty well. Loma is just a lot more aggressive than Floyd and as you said outmaneuvers opponents into helpless positions.