Overwatch Official Discussion, v2: ELO Hell (hello darkness my old friend)

[Dinotective]

From what I've ready from people much better than me is that Rein and Lucio can carry teams. So picking those is the easiest way to deal with shitty players.

My understanding of this is a little bit different. Here's my take:

How do you win in OW? You take control (either capturing a point or moving the payload). How do you take control? You get on it and get the other team off of it. How do you get the other team off of it? You beat the hell out of them, either outright killing them or forcing them to fall back. Who hands out these beatings? The damage dealers. This doesn't necessarily mean just the Offense characters though. A good Zarya and Roadhog can make life a nightmare for the enemy team. And I've personally carried games with Zenyatta (not often, but it happens).

All things being equal, I disagree with the idea that Lucio or Rein can carry. There are exceptions like DSPStanky, but those are few and far between and just a whole other level of play. What characters like Lucio and Rein do, and why they're selected 99% of the time, is because they facilitate the damage dealers in doing their job. With Rein, you're providing a barrier for your Solder to safely pour the damage from. With Lucio, you're speeding up Reaper to help him close the distance and land all the pellets from his shotguns.

I consider Rein and Lucio to be must-haves, but they still rely on your teammates having the sense to make use of what you're providing. You can have your barrier up with Reinhardt, but if your damage dealers are all flanking or just running out in front of it to get melted, you're pretty hosed. I can speed-boost my team on attack, but if they still just want to timidly stand at the choke and poke, it's going to accomplish nothing. But if your teammates have the sense to make use of what you're contributing, you're invaluable. However, you're still just facilitating the damage dealers. You can definitely make some clutch plays (hitting an Ulting or Nanoboosted target with Earthshatter or booping them off the map), but ultimately, it comes down to whether your damage dealers can make use of you. For the record, I'm definitely not a DPS main, so I don't have that bias in this opinion. It's just how I've seen stuff go down.

 

[bdreason]

From what I've ready from people much better than me is that Rein and Lucio can carry teams. So picking those is the easiest way to deal with shitty players. When i started picking Rein only I went from low 1400's to 2190. Since then I've dropped back down to 1900 but this is all solo que.

I've also noticed Mei seems to really help as well. Her ability to survive is unreal if you do everything just right. She can hold the payload/points by herself on defense.

You can carry some games with Rein, because he can produce wipes with very little help from teammates. The higher level you get, the less effective (relatively) Rein becomes though. At the end of the day, you need to get kills to win fights... and it's the DPS that are largely responsible for those kills.

Lucio is definitely not a carry character. Maybe you could semi-carry on a few maps with environmental kills. Otherwise you're gonna have to be a world class Lucio to carry bad teammates.

Mei can definitely be effective in the current Tank Meta. A good Mei can hold a line, isolate enemies, and defend teammates. I'm not sure you can consistently carry with her though. Maybe on payload maps with great Ult timing.

 

[GIBLERTBAPTISTA]

The good thing about Rein is you can initiate pushes. A lot of times teams will just sit at the choke and do nothing for a minute. Aggressive Rein is the best way to play. If you can hit your charge, your team should be able to follow up. In that sense he's a carry hero.

 

[Dinotective]

The good thing about Rein is you can initiate pushes. A lot of times teams will just sit at the choke and do nothing for a minute. Aggressive Rein is the best way to play. If you can hit your charge, your team should be able to follow up. In that sense he's a carry hero.

I suppose my definition of "carry" is different. I think of "carrying" as consistently being able to secure kills (or forcing the enemy to fall back) with minimal support from your team. What you describe in your example sounds more to me like you're creating opportunities for your teams. This is very valuable, of course (and I'd be happy to have such a Rein on my team), but I think it's very different from carrying because if they don't follow up on the opportunity you created, you're suddenly all alone in the middle of the enemy team and getting melted.

 

[bdreason]

I suppose my definition of "carry" is different. I think of "carrying" as consistently being able to secure kills (or forcing the enemy to fall back) with minimal support from your team. What you describe in your example sounds more to me like you're creating opportunities for your teams. This is very valuable, of course (and I'd be happy to have such a Rein on my team), but I think it's very different from carrying because if they don't follow up on the opportunity you created, you're suddenly all alone in the middle of the enemy team and getting melted.

Worst feeling ever is when you gain the man advantage, push with Rein, get the pin and the 2-man advantage, look around... and your team is still 'poking at the choke'. It's really unbelievable how long people will 'poke at the choke', thinking they're playing the right way, when they're really only feeding the other teams Ults.

It's even worse when you play a class like Winston. I'll harass the back line, kill the Ana/Mercy, gain the man advantage, call for the push, have 3-4 enemies chasing me for 15+ seconds, look around... and my team is still 'poking at the choke' against 1 or 2 enemies.


That's why I think the only way to consistently carry is to be the player actually getting the kills. If I can play an aggressive Soldier at 75% the capacity I play a Tank or Support, I feel like I give myself a much better chance at winning, if only for the fact that I can play smart (aggressive) when we have numbers.

 

[method115]

My understanding of this is a little bit different. Here's my take:

How do you win in OW? You take control (either capturing a point or moving the payload). How do you take control? You get on it and get the other team off of it. How do you get the other team off of it? You beat the hell out of them, either outright killing them or forcing them to fall back. Who hands out these beatings? The damage dealers. This doesn't necessarily mean just the Offense characters though. A good Zarya and Roadhog can make life a nightmare for the enemy team. And I've personally carried games with Zenyatta (not often, but it happens).

All things being equal, I disagree with the idea that Lucio or Rein can carry. There are exceptions like DSPStanky, but those are few and far between and just a whole other level of play. What characters like Lucio and Rein do, and why they're selected 99% of the time, is because they facilitate the damage dealers in doing their job. With Rein, you're providing a barrier for your Solder to safely pour the damage from. With Lucio, you're speeding up Reaper to help him close the distance and land all the pellets from his shotguns.

I consider Rein and Lucio to be must-haves, but they still rely on your teammates having the sense to make use of what you're providing. You can have your barrier up with Reinhardt, but if your damage dealers are all flanking or just running out in front of it to get melted, you're pretty hosed. I can speed-boost my team on attack, but if they still just want to timidly stand at the choke and poke, it's going to accomplish nothing. But if your teammates have the sense to make use of what you're contributing, you're invaluable. However, you're still just facilitating the damage dealers. You can definitely make some clutch plays (hitting an Ulting or Nanoboosted target with Earthshatter or booping them off the map), but ultimately, it comes down to whether your damage dealers can make use of you. For the record, I'm definitely not a DPS main, so I don't have that bias in this opinion. It's just how I've seen stuff go down.

I understand what you mean and I get it. If my team doesn't use my shield that does sort of ruin it but that's more rare to see happen from my experience. All I can tell you is what I've noticed happen. When I used to play DPS all the time it just wasn't working. Rein's in this game aren't very good. They don't shield enough, they attack to much, and they charge at unnecessary times. People who play tanks want to attack so much and not help their team enough.

I've also noticed that overall damage dealers in this game are fairly easy to play especially soldier. So I like to let others play those characters and I can pick the ones that require a little more finesse.

 

[sportkillergreg]

Im of the opinion that if ur playing with randoms its best to go for dps rather than entrusting this task to lesser men.

 

[method115]

Im of the opinion that if ur playing with randoms its best to go for dps rather than entrusting this task to lesser men.

Yea this is how I used to feel but it's just never worked out for me. I think the main reason is that everyone picks DPS. So most people in general are going to be at least decent with DPS. If you have those same people pick a healer or tank and don't let them kill people? Be prepared to have "battle rein" who isn't shielding and a Zen who's more concerned with discord and killing people than keeping his healing orb on someone.

 

[Corona]

I understand what you mean and I get it. If my team doesn't use my shield that does sort of ruin it but that's more rare to see happen from my experience. All I can tell you is what I've noticed happen. When I used to play DPS all the time it just wasn't working. Rein's in this game aren't very good. They don't shield enough, they attack to much, and they charge at unnecessary times. People who play tanks want to attack so much and not help their team enough.

I've also noticed that overall damage dealers in this game are fairly easy to play especially soldier. So I like to let others play those characters and I can pick the ones that require a little more finesse.

Soldier is hilariously easy to play. Obviously being a really good soldier requires more skill, but as long as you stay with your group and have decent accuracy it's pretty generic.

 

[method115]

Soldier is hilariously easy to play. Obviously being a really good soldier requires more skill, but as long as you stay with your group and have decent accuracy it's pretty generic.

Yep I avoided using him for so long and then I used him and I was like holy shit is this guy easy as fuck to kill people with. With Rein I try and force myself in front of him (if he's not already behind me) so he can see just how easy it is with me blocking him. So easy to push if you have him and Dva nailing the other Rein. If the other team doesn't have a Rein? Well then your pretty much just plowing through them at that point.

 

[Corona]

Yep I avoided using him for so long and then I used him and I was like holy shit is this guy easy as fuck to kill people with. With Rein I try and force myself in front of him (if he's not already behind me) so he can see just how easy it is with me blocking him. So easy to push if you have him and Dva nailing the other Rein. If the other team doesn't have a Rein? Well then your pretty much just plowing through them at that point.

I've had great games with reaper where I put in a lot of work flanking and taking down tanks and do like 13k+ damage and still finish silver to a soldier. Mainly because in the time it takes for me to get in position to be effective soldier has been standing behind rein just lighting people up.

 

[bdreason]

Gonna stream a little Winston tonight from 8-10pm PST.

 

[JohnnyBuddha]

Gonna stream a little Winston tonight from 8-10pm PST.

Alright bro, i'm watching it now. Better fuckin come through

 

[Corona]

Gonna stream a little Winston tonight from 8-10pm PST.

What rank are you? Pretty solid Winston play in oasis from what I saw.

 

[JohnnyBuddha]

Was fun watching you play some Winston. Watched a match on King's Row and you did well, but the other team was horrid! The same Sombra kept uncloaking right in the middle of the objective against 2-4 of you and your teammates.

 

[bdreason]

Thanks for watching. Thanks for whoever joined in last night as well, was it Corona?

Gonna stream again tonight from 8-10pm PST. If anyone wants to join the stream just add me on Battlenet or send me a message in Twitch chat or in-game.

Battlenet ID - Solex#1764

 

[Andersons Foot]

I bought BF1 and haven't played OW in a couple weeks. Hope to get back to it soon, it was beginning to frustrate me tho so the break was needed.

 

[God_Emperor_Of_Mankind]

The dps players are fucking awful in this range. Nobody can kill a goddamn pharah or widow. Plus the amount of roadhogs out right now is making the game dull. That fat shit needs another rework.

I didn't play roadhog a single time since today. Now i can see the allure.
That hook/heal combo makes him a powerful but easy to use pc.

 

[method115]

I didn't play roadhog a single time since today. Now i can see the allure.
That hook/heal combo makes him a powerful but easy to use pc.

Was with a roadhog last night that was ridiculous. He was hooking the Pharah in the air nonstop it was beautiful to watch. Saw him kill that Pharah at least 4-5 times with the hook in the air.

 

[God_Emperor_Of_Mankind]

Was with a roadhog last night that was ridiculous. He was hooking the Pharah in the air nonstop it was beautiful to watch. Saw him kill that Pharah at least 4-5 times with the hook in the air.

Game has phenomenal depth to it. Glad i got it.It's going to last a long time.