Our entire society is built on death

MusterX said:
The problem with nuclear is once there is a major accident we can't really clean it up. Chernobyl has to be monitored and managed 24 hours a day for hundreds of years. The total nuclear output at Chernobyl will last for 48,000 years. Let that sink in. They say humans might be able t move back into the area in another 600 years. Now you have this problem in Japan that is supposedly leaking radiation directly into the sea. I'm sure that isn't going to cause any problems down the line. If you ever want to see some crazy shit watch a doc like The Battle for Chernobyl. Its scary shit. They send in robots to look around and the robots all die with minutes or hours.
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Robots can't die. Duh.
 
Organic Damage said:
Since the birth of the Universe, no matter has been created or destroyed, just transformed from one state to another.

The atoms that make up your body were probably whirling around some star before it went nova billions of years ago. Kind of cool to think about.
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Not probably... were in stars.
 
Phr3121 said:
Some very good points. There is also the electric car option which is starting to become popular. As for the rest, we will have to recycle a lot of the rubber, paint, plastic, etc.
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Yea Electric, but where do we get our electricity? From burning fossil fuels, mostly coal and natural gas. Electricity is not a true energy source. You have to convert a real energy source into electricity. I'm not saying you shouldn't be optimistic about the future but this fossil fuel issue is gargantuan. With 7 billion people on the planet we couldn't even feed that many without fossil fuels much less build the endless stream of cars that the world demands. We use petroleum based fertilizers and petroleum based pesticides to grow all that food that is conveniently in the grocery store every day. Yes, fossil fuels are that big a problem, even the food you eat is dependent on fossil fuels.

I want to show you something that the majority of people you meet have no idea about. Its a chart showing world population growth and when the industrial revolution started which was when all our fossil fuel use and food production went up.

worldpopulationgrowth2%5B1%5D.gif


Now think of what is going to happen when you take those fossil fuels away.
 
How blazed are you right now?
 
Does cremation eliminate the (what process is this?) Thing that makes fossil fuel? Like... if you are cremated, are you effectively being erased from the planetary...... gene pool?

Can someone help me out here. I'm not smart enough to say what i mean
 
especially for those of us who feast on the flesh of man.
 
MusterX said:
Yea Electric, but where do we get our electricity? From burning fossil fuels, mostly coal and natural gas. Electricity is not a true energy source. You have to convert a real energy source into electricity. I'm not saying you shouldn't be optimistic about the future but this fossil fuel issue is gargantuan. With 7 billion people on the planet we couldn't even feed that many without fossil fuels much less build the endless stream of cars that the world demands. We use petroleum based fertilizers and petroleum based pesticides to grow all that food that is conveniently in the grocery store every day. Yes, fossil fuels are that big a problem, even the food you eat is dependent on fossil fuels.

I want to show you something that the majority of people you meet have no idea about. Its a chart showing world population growth and when the industrial revolution started which was when all our fossil fuel use and food production went up. Now think of what is going to happen when you take those fossil fuels away.
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You have to be a little more optimistic my friend. Science and technology has grown by leaps and bounds over the last 100 years. When consumption requires new resources, new technology will step in. Just look at the creation of the atom bomb and the Apollo program. No need for either until there was a demand for it. Electricity is still coming from hydroelectric, solar, and nuclear sources. Nuclear is a great source of energy, but it has gotten a bad reputation. I think the world as a whole has been too lazy about this issue. They are going to wait until the last minute to tackle the problem. The technology to convert away from fossil fuels is there, but most countries (including the U.S.) are too lazy to make that conversion. The culture is accustomed to the old ways of doing things, but they will have to wake up sooner or later and change the way we do things.

It will be interesting to watch how the Middle East, a great supplier of oil, will become completely insignificant, as they were before the discovery of oil.
 
Your're killing my buzz man with this line of thought sh!t man, No Lie...
 
Grassshoppa said:
Fixed.
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Alright, solved I guess. I'm not sure we can buy our way out of this predicament. Once oil begins to become scarce the price will be so high nobody can afford to buy it anyhow. That is one of the other problems. We don't have to run out of oil for everything to fall into chaos. All that has to happen is for oil to become scarce. The whole of society will cease without it. All your clothes, your food, everything that makes society possible is petroleum based.

The U.S. alone uses 20,000,000 barrels of oil PER DAY. The world uses 100,000,000 barrels PER DAY. The world uses 3 billion (3,000,000,000) barrels of oil every month at 42 gallons of oil per barrel. How long do you think we can keep this up before the shit hits the fan?
 
Phr3121 said:
You have to be a little more optimistic my friend. Science and technology has grown by leaps and bounds over the last 100 years. When consumption requires new resources, new technology will step in. Just look at the creation of the atom bomb and the Apollo program. No need for either until there was a demand for it. Electricity is still coming from hydroelectric, solar, and nuclear sources. Nuclear is a great source of energy, but it has gotten a bad reputation. I think the world as a whole has been too lazy about this issue. They are going to wait until the last minute to tackle the problem. The technology to convert away from fossil fuels is there, but most countries (including the U.S.) are too lazy to make that conversion. The culture is accustomed to the old ways of doing things, but they will have to wake up sooner or later and change the way we do things.

It will be interesting to watch how the Middle East, a great supplier of oil, will become completely insignificant, as they were before the discovery of oil.
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The problem is just so much bigger than that. Our food production relies on petroleum based fertilizers and pesticides. Its the only way we can try to feed billions of people. Most people are not even ready for the level of problem that is coming our way. Its not that they are dumb, they just don't understand the problem. I'm not saying you btw. Petroleum is a store of energy, its not just some black stuff we get out of the ground. Its an actual energy store. That is the reason why we can use it to fertilize otherwise dead or half dead soil to grow crops. The crops take the energy from the oil based feritliizer and convert it for growth. We spray it on and then plant and that is how we manage to feed the world.

The problem is there is no real replacement for it. You continue to eat each day because we haven't run out of oil yet. Its not even just that, its 100 other things like that. Everything you know about modern civilization was made possible by petroleum. EVERYTHING. Most people think if we can stop running cars on gasoline, problem solved, but no, that isn't even remotely close to problem solved. Some men, ones smarter than myself, have already predicted that even if we get off of oil for gasoline, we will not have the resources to continue to replace all the cars we are currently building.

Think about just the keyboard you are typing on, just that one little thing. Without plastics how are we going to make that? Everyone going to be using wooden keyboards? Are we going to switch to wood and deforest the entire planet? This problem of fossil fuels is enormous and complex.
 
MusterX said:
The problem is there is no real replacement for it. You continue to eat each day because we haven't run out of oil yet. Its not even just that, its 100 other things like that. Everything you know about modern civilization was made possible by petroleum. EVERYTHING.
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Have to disagree with you on that my friend. Use of petroleum did not really become a thing until the beginning of the 20th century. Man had food and transportation before the discovery of oil. There was a modern civilization before the 1900s. In some ways a better quality of life and a better planet than we have today. Farming (agricultural and animal) before the 1900 was doing just fine without oil (petroleum). Fast forward 118 years and look at the technology. I know we will be fine without oil. We have been there before as a species. Look at all the poor countries in Africa and how they have managed to make it without oil. Much of what you list on your original post can be created artificially (synthetically), but it is still cheaper using the bi-product of petroleum.

I'm all for nuclear. I love Uranium. I have some U-238 sitting on my desk. Uranium is our friend. Let's harness that bad boy and create some real energy. Nuclear energy and quantum physics is fascinating. Just don't build a plant in earthquake prone areas (Japan) or of poor quality and maintenance (Chernobyl). Uranium is also a limited natural resource. It is an element, but there is still plenty in the planet to be converted into energy for hundreds of years, certainly longer than fossil fuels.

 
MusterX said:
Alright, solved I guess. I'm not sure we can buy our way out of this predicament. Once oil begins to become scarce the price will be so high nobody can afford to buy it anyhow. That is one of the other problems. We don't have to run out of oil for everything to fall into chaos. All that has to happen is for oil to become scarce. The whole of society will cease without it. All your clothes, your food, everything that makes society possible is petroleum based.

The U.S. alone uses 20,000,000 barrels of oil PER DAY. The world uses 100,000,000 barrels PER DAY. The world uses 3 billion (3,000,000,000) barrels of oil every month at 42 gallons of oil per barrel. How long do you think we can keep this up before the shit hits the fan?
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I think in 8th grade we learned the Earth has a limitless supply of oil. We're fine.
 
Oil is a limited resource. We have between 35 and 50 years of it left based on the 'Klass' model.

Fake news.
 
Phr3121 said:
Have to disagree with you on that my friend. Use of petroleum did not really become a thing until the beginning of the 20th century. Man had food and transportation before the discovery of oil. There was a modern civilization before the 1900s. In some ways a better quality of life and a better planet than we have today. Farming (agricultural and animal) before the 1900 was doing just fine without oil (petroleum). Fast forward 118 years and look at the technology. I know we will be fine without oil. We have been there before as a species. Look at all the poor countries in Africa and how they have managed to make it without oil. Much of what you list on your original post can be created artificially (synthetically), but it is still cheaper using the bi-product of petroleum.

I'm all for nuclear. I love Uranium. I have some U-238 sitting on my desk. Uranium is our friend. Let's harness that bad boy and create some real energy. Nuclear energy and quantum physics is fascinating. Just don't build a plant in earthquake prone areas (Japan) or of poor quality and maintenance (Chernobyl). Uranium is also a limited natural resource. It is an element, but there is still plenty in the planet to be converted into energy for hundreds of years, certainly longer than fossil fuels.

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That's what I was trying to explain to you earlier. Any species you want to pick will expand to the limits of its food availability, or in our case our food production ability. If there is enough food to support 30 wolves then you get about 30 wolves, if there is enough food to support 300 wolves, guess what, you get 300 wolves. People are that way as well. Look at this population chart again.

world-pop-time.jpg


The population numbers before the industrial revolution were way lower, the graph spiked off the chart after remaining relatively consistent and low for thousands of years. You don't have the food production capabilities to feed 7 billion without the use of petroleum based fertilizers and pesticides. The entire reason we have 7 billion people is because our food production capabilities spiked way up and the graph shows you that spike in population growth.

We could go back to the old way but a few billion people are going to need to starve in order for that to happen. Believe me, I'm not happy about it. These are not my ideas. I've read a fair amount about the topic and frankly its scary as shit to think about. Everything happening from day to day in all our lives is dependent that the oil continue to flow at a rate of 100 million barrels per day. The even scarier part is we would not be able to feed 7 billion and the world population continues to grow even higher.
 
Grassshoppa said:
I think in 8th grade we learned the Earth has a limitless supply of oil. We're fine.
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LOL, I'll likely die before oil becomes scarce but at some point the shit is going to hit the fan. I hope I'm already gone when it does.
 
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