NPR- Interviews author, Newly Released Documents Detail Traumas Of China's Cultural Revolution

[livingdeadmoose]

This isnt even a problem with communism. Its problem with strong man dictator, in a country, and culture of the Chinese. Mao was one of if not the worst strong man dictator in history, and China the worst possible place to have someone like him.

This topic hits close to my heart. My parents were small children, or maybe preteens in China when all this happened. I always knew something was off about them, and of course I figure it must stem from their time growing up in that atmosphere.

All that happened though, is the fault of the chinese mentality. They are very stubborn, set in their ways, me me me attitude. Mao knew how to manipulate that. It comes with the territory of being the most dominant power in their region of the world for many millenia I guess.

When the Euro imperialist powers came, it was a real shocker to the chinese. They went through like a century and a half of strife. Now though they seem to be coming out of it, but they really still want to regain that old glory of theirs, while keeping that same superiority complex.

But communism walks hand in hand with dictatorship. So yes, the problem is communism.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

As usual, you're wrong.

You try to copy paste Peterson all over this place like that somehow wins you a debate. At best, that would be him winning a debate, and you're still no better than most monkeys.

I'm not claiming to be an expert, or even offer an opinion here, just calling you out on this silly practice.

Peterson isn't right about everything and he doesn't know everything, and he'd probably admit it sooner than you.

This is the standard you put forward.

By your own words, unless you have a degree in the subject you're discussing, no one on Sherdog should consider your opinions valid.

Given that this is the standard that you put forward, you better just stay out of climate change threads. That is, unless you have a degree in climate science!

 

[Rational Poster]

This is the standard you put forward.

By your own words, unless you have a degree in the subject you're discussing, no one on Sherdog should consider your opinions valid.

Given that this is the standard that you put forward, you better just stay out of climate change threads. That is, unless you have a degree in climate science!

I guess you didn't read the post at all huh. I never said his opinions weren't valid, or that not having a degree in a certain field makes them invalid, just that he's no authority.

 

[Rational Poster]

But communism walks hand in hand with dictatorship. So yes, the problem is communism.

What about Putin?

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

I'm not smearing him, I'm smearing you using him to make your arguments, and pointing out that this isn't his field of expertise.

I guess you didn't read the post at all huh. I never said his opinions weren't valid, or that not having a degree in a certain field makes them invalid, just that he's no authority.

Here are your own words:

Thanks for this psychiatrist's opinion on history.

Totally relevant.

You know that just because Jordan Peterson thinks or says something doesn't mean it's fact, especially when we're dealing with subject matter that has nothing to do with his expertise.

You're trying (and failing) to poison the well against Professor Peterson.

The proof is there for anyone to see.

Your attempt to walk it back is noted.

 

[livingdeadmoose]

What about Putin?

You really can’t call modern Russia communist. At least compared to when it used to be the Soviet Union.

But yes he is a dictator.

 

[Rational Poster]

Here are your own words:


You're trying (and failing) to poison the well against Professor Peterson.

The proof is there for anyone to see.

Your attempt to walk it back is noted.

By pointing out he's a psychiatrist and not a Soviet historian or economist?

 

[Rational Poster]

You really can’t call modern Russia communist. At least compared to when it used to be the Soviet Union.

But yes he is a dictator.

Well that's kind of my point here man, how do you explain dictators with no links to communism?

Could it be dictatorship has more to do with personality rather than economic system?

I'd argue there have been more not-communist dictators than communist dictators.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

By pointing out he's a psychiatrist and not a Soviet historian or economist?

At least you're admitting that your first reply to me was an attempt to poison the well against Professor Peterson.

Progress friends!

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

Here are your own words:


You're trying (and failing) to poison the well against Professor Peterson.

The proof is there for anyone to see.

Your attempt to walk it back is noted.

Stop wasting your time with that guy..

he is the ultimate partisan hack...

look at what he's defending here.

 

[livingdeadmoose]

Well that's kind of my point here man, how do you explain dictators with no links to communism?

Could it be dictatorship has more to do with personality rather than economic system?

I'd argue there have been more not-communist dictators than communist dictators.

First off, I never said that all dictators have been communist. But all communist countries have been dictatorships.

And two, yes there have been more non communist dictatorships than communist dictatorships. But that’s because communism is still a relatively new concept in human history. But look at the damage it’s caused in the short time it’s been around. Over 100 million dead from communism in the 20th century alone. Not mention the widespread starvation and human rights violations.

You’re either crazy, or a high school/college kid to even think about defending communism.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

Stop wasting your time with that guy..

he is the ultimate partisan hack...

look at what he's defending here.

True, eluding to what I said earlier, trolls like Irrational Poster will leave no make on the intellectual history of humanity.

In the same way I left Jack V. Sophist in my dust, perhaps Irrational Poster deserves the same treatment.

 

[Rational Poster]

First off, I never said that all dictators have been communist. But all communist countries have been dictatorships.

And two, yes there have been more non communist dictatorships than communist dictatorships. But that’s because communism is still a relatively new concept in human history. But look at the damage it’s caused in the short time it’s been around. Over 100 million dead from communism in the 20th century alone. Not mention the widespread starvation and human rights violations.

You’re either crazy, or a high school/college kid to even think about defending communism.

I'm not trying to defend communism, only put the blame where it belongs.

I don't think communism has some monopoly on human suffering and human rights abuse.

People in positions of unchecked extreme power have a tendency towards evil, not the systems they create.

Mao and Stalin were able to kill so many because they were the first dictators with the technology and scale of society available to commit such atrocities, not because they were communists.

Hitler wasn't too far behind either and he completely rejected their system of beliefs.

 

[livingdeadmoose]

I'm not trying to defend communism, only put the blame where it belongs.

I don't think communism has some monopoly on human suffering and human rights abuse.

People in positions of unchecked extreme power have a tendency towards evil, not the systems they create.

And what do you think communism, or any type of Marxism revolves around? Unchecked extreme power. There is no other way for communism. There are no checks or balances of power with it.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

And what do you think communism, or any type of Marxism revolves around? Unchecked extreme power. There is no other way for communism. There are no checks or balances of power with it.

/thread

We have a winner!

 

[Rational Poster]

And what do you think communism, or any type of Marxism revolves around? Unchecked extreme power. There is no other way for communism. There are no checks or balances of power with it.

Pretty sure that's not what communism revolves around, that's just what it devolved to in history.

Pretty sure also, it's not the only instance in history in which a extreme character rose to power.

 

[livingdeadmoose]

Pretty sure that's not what communism revolves around, that's just what it devolved to in history.

Pretty sure also, it's not the only instance in history in which a extreme character rose to power.

Lol, typical liberal mentality. “That’s not real communism!”

You’ll grow up someday. Hopefully

 

[Rational Poster]

Lol, typical liberal mentality. “That’s not real communism!”

You’ll grow up someday. Hopefully

I'm not saying it is or isn't real communism.

I'm saying Stalin and Mao were enormous pricks and would have brought suffering to their people regardless of the political or economic system in place.

 

[tramendous]

I'm not saying it is or isn't real communism.

I'm saying Stalin and Mao were enormous pricks and would have brought suffering to their people regardless of the political or economic system in place.

While that may be true, the argument is that communism creates a system where its more likely that someone like that comes to power.

 

[luckyshot]

Communists are evil scumbags.

Peterson spent years researching totalitarian communist regimes. I think it is safe to assume he has some insight on the subject.

The operative word is in red; any totalitarian regime, whatever its ideological orientation, is... a totalitarian regime.

Have there been brutal totalitarian communist regimes? Absolutely. Have ALL totalitarian communist regimes been brutal? Yes.

On the other hand, many (probably most) people for most of human history have lived under some type of totalitarian monarchy. That wasn't a picnic, either, as the hundreds of thousands of folks (literally) crucified under a Caesar can attest.

The problem in the United States (if you want to use "sophistry" @Farmer Br0wn this is a good use) is how corporate elitists have programmed the right to shout down everything from labor unions to environmental protection as zomg COMMUNISM JUST LIKE STALIN AND MAO!!!!!

By that logic Switzerland suffers under a brutal communist regime.

He's studied totalitarian regime far more tha you could ever hope to. This is just you trying to poison the well.

The sophists who make the flawed "not true communism" argument will leave no mark on the intellectual history of humanity.

Jordan Peterson on the other hand.......

I like Jordan Peterson, but the hero worship that surrounds him because he has taken ONE high profile public stance against the Canadian government (albeit a good stance, in my opinion) is tiresome.

He is a very smart guy. His podcast has some really good episodes. In reality, though, about 80% of his material is a reiteration/ elaboration of Joseph Campbell. Not a bad thing at all, but I think a lot of viewers are overly impressed with him because he is their first exposure to certain ideas, and so they think he invented the psychological-reading-of-mythology wheel. He didn't.