Ngannou says Izzy is the GOAT middleweight

[Mentallooser]

Well, they are friends, and he's certainly in the conversation

 

[Mentallooser]

I'm a die hard Izzy fan but it's really difficult to compare the two, plus if you were around during Anderson's reign it's really hard to go against him. Head-to-head I think Izzy beats him everytime (Prime or not) but Anderson was truly levels above his competition during his reign. Personally, I'd favour Anderson but I'm not mad at big Frank for picking Izzy.

This era is different from the ones before(always true, I know). The amount of film study that goes on when preparing for someone like Izzy is unreal. It makes sustained time at the top so difficult now in ways that it wasn't before. I'm so impressed by people who can stay champion for awhile in this game of more advanced best practices, and gameplanning.

 

[clackers]

No and also what happens to Francis boxing is no one interested in him?[/QUOTE

Ouch..

Come to think of it what happened to Francis Boxing. The clock is ticking Francis.

 

[avenue94]

He struggled with washed up Andy. Andy went 16 straight fights without a loss

We can only rate fighters on their actual resumes, and Izzy's is better than Silva at this point. Whether or not prime Silva would beat Izzy in a horrible slog of a match is irrelevant.

 

[avenue94]

Imagine what prime Anderson would do

Honestly a slow paced match with lots of showboating and posturing from both fighters with occasional, short exchanges and someone edging a decision.

Prime Silva's fight wasn't exactly a consistent machine. He went to the cards with Leites and Maia in his UFC prime and lost in absurd ways pre UFC.

Hilariously I'd still pick Weidman to beat both for the same reasons.

 

[avenue94]

Anderson was much more dynamic and unpredictable. Also a true genius of martial arts.

He was like Wayne Gretzky, saw the game different than everyone else. You had zero idea what he was going to hit you with. None.

Anderson took on the best wrestlers that actually tested him as well. Henderson, Sonnen, he even fared well against a much larger DC.

Beating those wrestlers doesn't change the fact that by elite standards Silva was a pretty crappy wrestler.

I have a very long memory of Silva's reign, so I can't quite put Izzy above Silva... yet.

But Izzy... like Silva, was KOed...

... and came back to get his revenge via KO, unlike Silva.

Gotta give Izzy that.

To be fair, I wouldn't favor Izzy over a prime Weidman given he got taken down by Alex Periera of all people.

 

[avenue94]

Prime Anderson would flatline Izzy and Pereira on the same night

Like he did with Maia and Leites? People really memoryhole Anderson as a fighter. Great, but incredibly inconsistent and a fighter with clear weaknesses, like most other greats.

Worth noting that both Izzy and Silva benefited from MW's historically poor wrestling meta.

 

[Richard Fannin]

I think its important to note that Forrest only became seen as a joke after Anderson beat him so bad. Before that Forrest was a top 10 p4p fighter. He had just beaten Shogun and Rampage at the height of their careers and was up 2 rounds to nothing against Rashad before getting caught. But Anderson made him look so bad he ruined his reputation.

There were still a lot of questions regarding Forrest... 'rassler Rashad had just made him tap to strikes
The Rampage decision was very controversial at the time too... no one talks about it anymore, but back then the good people of Sherdog weren't happy:

Round 1
The fighters trade punches at the sound of the bell with nothing connecting solid. Griffin gets the action started with a right hand lead that lands. Griffin is working the lead leg of Jackson early with low kicks. A left hook from the champion finds its target. Griffin jabs with his left and goes back to Jackson's leg with a kick. A punching flurry punctuated by powerful left staggers Griffin. The challenger comes forward however, glancing a right straight and a low kick. A right uppercut counter collapses Griffin to the canvas. Rampage enters Griffin's guard and moves him to the cage. Right hands land for Jackson as Forrest stood. Excellent opening frame.

TJ De Santis scores the round 10-9 Jackson
Jordan Breen scores the round 10-9 Jackson
Mike Fridley scores the round 10-9 Jackson

Round 2
Griffin lands a low kick that hurts Jackson. His knee buckles as he retreats to the fencing. Griffin locks on a guillotine and trips Jackson to the canvas. He gives up the hold but takes top position. The challenger moves to side-control and works for an Americana. He gives up the submission to take the mount. Elbows and left hands land for Griffin. Forrest continues to elbow the head but he is doing little damage. All Griffin in the second frame.

TJ De Santis scores the round 10-9 Griffin
Jordan Breen scores the round 10-8 Griffin
Mike Fridley scores the round 10-8 Griffin

Round 3
Griffin continues his assault on Jackson's left leg. Jackson is avoiding the majority of the incoming low kicks, but a few are getting through. Jackson, limping badly, is looking for a knockout punch. He hurts Griffin with a right hand but is now too slow to follow through. Griffin plays it smart by sticking and moving. Jackson tries to rally late in the round with a combination started with a right hook to the body. Griffin takes a bit of punishment but moves away.

TJ De Santis scores the round 10-9 Jackson
Jordan Breen scores the round 10-9 Jackson
Mike Fridley scores the round 10-9 Griffin

Round 4
Jackson gets a takedown but is caught in a triangle. Griffin has the hold secured but he can't control Jackson's trapped arm. Jackson escapes but finds himself fighting an omaplata. The champion stands and lands a hard right hand on the now bleeding challenger. Forrest, dripping crimson fluid below his right eye, gets hit with a strong left right as the round closed.

TJ De Santis scores the round 10-9 Jackson
Jordan Breen scores the round 10-9 Jackson
Mike Fridley scores the round 10-9 Jackson



Round 5
The fifth and final round starts with both fighters looking for a big punch. Griffin gets the best of early action with a right straight. Griffin goes back to the leg with a kick after tasting a right hook. Jackson turns it up a bit with a strong flurry. In the bout's final minute, Griffin went to the leg while Jackson loaded up with shots. Jackson was unable to connect as the close fight came to a close.

TJ De Santis scores the round 10-9 Jackson
Jordan Breen scores the round 10-9 Griffin
Mike Fridley scores the round 10-9 Griffin

The official judges score the bout 48-46, 48-46 and 49-46 for Forrest Griffin.

....and neither were the honorable MMA medias of that time:

MEDIA SCORES
MMAWeekly.com​

48-46​

Griffin
Mike Fridley
Sherdog.com​

48-46​

Griffin
FightMetric.com​

47-47​

DRAW
Jordan Breen
Sherdog.com​

47-47​

DRAW
MMAJunkie.com​

47-48​

Jackson
TJ DeSantis
Sherdog.com​

46-49​

Jackson​

And before that, sure the first Shogun fight was a monumental upset, but even back then there were lots of questions regarding Rua's multiple knee surgeries, which led to his horrible conditioning that night, and how would a rematch look like, etc etc etc

Griffin was a very vulnerable champion, got concussed by Rashad, and looked terrible when Anderson juiced up to 205 to poach him.
The odds were crazy, AS, a -308 favorite, was supposed to beat Griffin, who was a +260 underdog

(in contrast, Michael Bisping, who had just beaten Anderson, was the favorite to beat GSP, and the haters still say that St-Pierre was the one who "poached" him while AS bravely went up a weight class to test himself against the TUF phenom


Ok; ok, I'm being a bit harsh and a tad facetious, Griffin was a good win for Silva, even if he never looked the same after Rashad.

When it comes to MW GOAT, Anderson still has the crown... Izzy would need to beat Poatan at least one more time to get back in MW GOAT contention, he can't just leave it at 1-3 and call it quit.
Especially since Pereira was winning the fight until he lost. Izzy could barely stand at the end, and we were just 2 rounds in...

The Israel vs Anderson fight was a bit like the Cormier fight, a meaningless fun exhibition, that Izzy clearly didn't take seriously... so it's tough to judge them based on that

 

[Objectively Correct]

>GOAT Middleweight
>loses to same guy three times
kek

 

[OneOfOne]

There were still a lot of questions regarding Forrest... 'rassler Rashad had just made him tap to strikes
The Rampage decision was very controversial at the time too... no one talks about it anymore, but back then the good people of Sherdog weren't happy:

Round 1
The fighters trade punches at the sound of the bell with nothing connecting solid. Griffin gets the action started with a right hand lead that lands. Griffin is working the lead leg of Jackson early with low kicks. A left hook from the champion finds its target. Griffin jabs with his left and goes back to Jackson's leg with a kick. A punching flurry punctuated by powerful left staggers Griffin. The challenger comes forward however, glancing a right straight and a low kick. A right uppercut counter collapses Griffin to the canvas. Rampage enters Griffin's guard and moves him to the cage. Right hands land for Jackson as Forrest stood. Excellent opening frame.

TJ De Santis scores the round 10-9 Jackson
Jordan Breen scores the round 10-9 Jackson
Mike Fridley scores the round 10-9 Jackson

Round 2
Griffin lands a low kick that hurts Jackson. His knee buckles as he retreats to the fencing. Griffin locks on a guillotine and trips Jackson to the canvas. He gives up the hold but takes top position. The challenger moves to side-control and works for an Americana. He gives up the submission to take the mount. Elbows and left hands land for Griffin. Forrest continues to elbow the head but he is doing little damage. All Griffin in the second frame.

TJ De Santis scores the round 10-9 Griffin
Jordan Breen scores the round 10-8 Griffin
Mike Fridley scores the round 10-8 Griffin

Round 3
Griffin continues his assault on Jackson's left leg. Jackson is avoiding the majority of the incoming low kicks, but a few are getting through. Jackson, limping badly, is looking for a knockout punch. He hurts Griffin with a right hand but is now too slow to follow through. Griffin plays it smart by sticking and moving. Jackson tries to rally late in the round with a combination started with a right hook to the body. Griffin takes a bit of punishment but moves away.

TJ De Santis scores the round 10-9 Jackson
Jordan Breen scores the round 10-9 Jackson
Mike Fridley scores the round 10-9 Griffin

Round 4
Jackson gets a takedown but is caught in a triangle. Griffin has the hold secured but he can't control Jackson's trapped arm. Jackson escapes but finds himself fighting an omaplata. The champion stands and lands a hard right hand on the now bleeding challenger. Forrest, dripping crimson fluid below his right eye, gets hit with a strong left right as the round closed.

TJ De Santis scores the round 10-9 Jackson
Jordan Breen scores the round 10-9 Jackson
Mike Fridley scores the round 10-9 Jackson



Round 5
The fifth and final round starts with both fighters looking for a big punch. Griffin gets the best of early action with a right straight. Griffin goes back to the leg with a kick after tasting a right hook. Jackson turns it up a bit with a strong flurry. In the bout's final minute, Griffin went to the leg while Jackson loaded up with shots. Jackson was unable to connect as the close fight came to a close.

TJ De Santis scores the round 10-9 Jackson
Jordan Breen scores the round 10-9 Griffin
Mike Fridley scores the round 10-9 Griffin

The official judges score the bout 48-46, 48-46 and 49-46 for Forrest Griffin.

....and neither were the honorable MMA medias of that time:

MEDIA SCORES
MMAWeekly.com
48-46
Griffin
Mike Fridley
Sherdog.com
48-46
Griffin
FightMetric.com
47-47
DRAW
Jordan Breen
Sherdog.com
47-47
DRAW
MMAJunkie.com
47-48
Jackson
TJ DeSantis
Sherdog.com
46-49
Jackson​

And before that, sure the first Shogun fight was a monumental upset, but even back then there were lots of questions regarding Rua's multiple knee surgeries, which led to his horrible conditioning that night, and how would a rematch look like, etc etc etc

Griffin was a very vulnerable champion, got concussed by Rashad, and looked terrible when Anderson juiced up to 205 to poach him.
The odds were crazy, AS, a -308 favorite, was supposed to beat Griffin, who was a +260 underdog

(in contrast, Michael Bisping, who had just beaten Anderson, was the favorite to beat GSP, and the haters still say that St-Pierre was the one who "poached" him while AS bravely went up a weight class to test himself against the TUF phenom


Ok; ok, I'm being a bit harsh and a tad facetious, Griffin was a good win for Silva, even if he never looked the same after Rashad.

When it comes to MW GOAT, Anderson still has the crown... Izzy would need to beat Poatan at least one more time to get back in MW GOAT contention, he can't just leave it at 1-3 and call it quit.
Especially since Pereira was winning the fight until he lost. Izzy could barely stand at the end, and we were just 2 rounds in...

The Israel vs Anderson fight was a bit like the Cormier fight, a meaningless fun exhibition, that Izzy clearly didn't take seriously... so it's tough to judge them based on that

I think anyone who dominates #1 ranked Shogun, wins a close fight against #1 ranked Rampage, and then goes up 2 rounds to nothing against prime Rashad is a top tier fighter. And everyone else thought so at the time as well. That was until Anderson humiliated him.

 

[Richard Fannin]

>GOAT Middleweight
>loses to same guy three times
kek

>GOAT MW
>loses to same guys twice (José "Pelé" Landi-Jons in Muay Thai, Weidman in MMA), and unlike Izzy, doesn't even avenge any of those losses
roflcopter

 

[Marko Polo]

Young Andy would have destroyed Adesanya. And Pereira too for that matter

 

[Richard Fannin]

I think anyone who dominates #1 ranked Shogun, wins a close fight against #1 ranked Rampage, and then goes up 2 rounds to nothing against prime Rashad is a top tier fighter. And everyone else thought so at the time as well. That was until Anderson humiliated him.

Top tiers fighter, absolutely. There's no arguing that... and honestly, I was one of the very few who picked Forrest to beat Anderson at the time (I figured he would use the strategy that he ended up using a couple fights later against Rich "Ace" Franklin), but it wasn't a popular pick.

But unlike most UFC champs of the time, he didn't really have that "aura of invincibility of a champion"... Rashad, the challenger, was the favorite to beat him (not by much, but still) and after he made him tap to strikes, Griffin just wasn't the same.

He was still a top fighter, a guy who wasn't very athletic or explosive, but who showed that he had brains and could follow a gameplan (Rampage fight is a perfect example of that), but also had grits, and showed in the first Bonnar fight that he was willing to stand and bang in the circumstances were right.

I'm glad he called it a career relatively quick, compared to most UFC stars. He was always injured (knee, shoulder, knee again...) but I'm a bit sad we never got the Lil' Nog match-up.
Now that one, I would have loved to see.

 

[haj02]

Honestly, Francis doesn't seem very bright and he has bad MMA opinions, he could never be a sherdogger. This reeks of the type of thinking of that idiot @Haj01.

 

[spinup]

>GOAT Middleweight
>loses to same guy three times
kek

2 losses in KB against a guy who became Glory champ at 185 and 205 and UFC champ at 185. 1 loss being a very controversial decision, the other a flash KO after nearly finishing the guy.

Realistically, they are 1-1 in MMA, and should also have been 1-1 in kickboxing.

 

[HaulParris]

The sport is way too young to even have a serious GOAT discussion. And, in the 30 years or so of it being around, it has changed and evolved a great deal. Anderson was amazing, Izzy is great, both are MW kings.

 

[lefthighkick01]

Thats the thing, you look at that, and go, damn if Anderson was in his prime, Izzy would be murdered by now...

 

[stacrafty]

Usually a solid argument, doesn't work as well against a skinny guy with tits IMO.

So lets take what we know as fact - Anderson did piss hot multiple times
What we also know as fact - Izzy has been tested so many times he got awarded the USADA jacket, never pissed hot

Now lets take whats all perception - because he had a funny looking tit one time, he must be on something - despite of the above fact we know that hes been tested a tonne and never pissed hot

So see how a gullible muppet like yourself can easily be duped and just ignore stuff which is fact (anderson pissing hot) and instead go with rumour or shertard shitposting "fact" that Izzy must be on something - despite the overwhelming evidence hes not, never was, never has been.

Imagine if there was morons like you in the science world, we wouldn't be typing on computers right now, we'd be using rocks in caves or something

Never ceases to amaze me of the collective stupidity of this forum tbh - where a fact Anderson pissing hot is largely ignored, and instead a guy thats never pissed hot and set a record for being tested... is presumed guilty

 

[stacrafty]

Thats the thing, you look at that, and go, damn if Anderson was in his prime, Izzy would be murdered by now...

Anderson in his prime who got dropped by Chael Sonnen a bunch of times?

Anderson in his prime who only looked good because he styled on average strikers? go on go to wikipedia and look at all his opponents and pick the the most competent striker... they are light years behind Poatan

Just more gullible shertarders being duped by a highlight reel KO style and with their goldfish memory are happy to celebrate the times it worked... but will ignore all the times it didn't and the 1-6 skid.

And this is the guy you think is better than Izzy? lmao

 

[Chagaev]

So lets take what we know as fact - Anderson did piss hot multiple times
What we also know as fact - Izzy has been tested so many times he got awarded the USADA jacket, never pissed hot

Now lets take whats all perception - because he had a funny looking tit one time, he must be on something - despite of the above fact we know that hes been tested a tonne and never pissed hot

So see how a gullible muppet like yourself can easily be duped and just ignore stuff which is fact (anderson pissing hot) and instead go with rumour or shertard shitposting "fact" that Izzy must be on something - despite the overwhelming evidence hes not, never was, never has been.

Imagine if there was morons like you in the science world, we wouldn't be typing on computers right now, we'd be using rocks in caves or something

Never ceases to amaze me of the collective stupidity of this forum tbh - where a fact Anderson pissing hot is largely ignored, and instead a guy thats never pissed hot and set a record for being tested... is presumed guilty

Are you this triggered by tits in general or just Izzy's?

I don't presume he's guilty, I'm aware of the controversy and believe your argument doesn't work that well in the context- if you're not, go google what Firas or other guys in the business have to say about it.