New Opioid Study

I"m not suggesting its associated with Trump as a causal factor, only that this study and this thread is bullshit because its TRYING to make a correlation between opioid addiction and voting for Trump. Its using a tragedy to win political points. Its a poorly conducted study unworthy of JAMA or even its offshoots.
So, just to be clear:
  • You aren't arguing that the study is wrong or false.
  • You admit that is a correlation between places that voted for Trump and those that have higher opioid rates.
  • You just don't feel like this factual correlation should be pointed out because it is in bad taste?
 
The fun part is that the drugs that paramedics carry to reverse the effects of a drug overdose (and save the life of the patient) don't work on fentanyl. Damn shame what's happening to people.

I believe Narcan does work on it but you need a higher dosage.

It's more dangerous for First Responders though. a coupel accidentaly inhaled some when they were helping a junkie a couple of years ago and started suffering from dizziness and shortness of breath.

https://www.dea.gov/druginfo/DEA Targets Fentanyl A Real Threat to Law Enforcement (2016).pdf
 
But there is a correlation. Denying it doesn't make it untrue and if you've been following the opioid crisis for some time, you should be aware of those overlapping elements.

Are you suggesting that it's a coincidence that as these parts of the country lost their economic footholds, social standing (increased depression, suicide rates, etc), and increased their drug abuse to cope with it (resulting in higher mortality rates) that they also voted for a political candidate who claimed he could reverse those trends?

These parts of country are dying, sinking into economic ruin and desperate for a solution.

No, I'm saying using data from a specific year of a 20 year epidemic to try to explain why Trump got elected is bullshit.
Opioid related deaths peaked under Obama. Did they do a similar study when Obama was elected? Reelected?
This study didn't even explore the counties that may have flipped from Obama to Trump. There is no useful data to be obtained from this poorly constructed study with its biased agenda.

Not only that, but its got that "basket of deplorable" stink to it. Associating Trump voters with dirty filthy drug addicts.
This is a disease, not a political weapon, but if its used as such its going to backfire.
 
I believe Narcan does work on it but you need a higher dosage.

It's more dangerous for First Responders though. a coupel accidentaly inhaled some when they were helping a junkie a couple of years ago and started suffering from dizziness and shortness of breath.

https://www.dea.gov/druginfo/DEA Targets Fentanyl A Real Threat to Law Enforcement (2016).pdf
You are correct. Narcan does work.

Looks like this has happened a few times, just using a quick Google search. Looks like it can be absorbed through the skin just touching the patient, ingested via the air, or even absorbed through the eyes. Damn, these guys are going to need to start showing up in hazmat suits or something if this becomes a more significant problem.
 
So, just to be clear:
  • You aren't arguing that the study is wrong or false.
  • You admit that is a correlation between places that voted for Trump and those that have higher opioid rates.
  • You just don't feel like this factual correlation should be pointed out because it is in bad taste?

To be clear:
  • The study is so poorly constructed and biased from its inception that you cannot assume its conclusions are accurate.
  • The correlation is incomplete and inconclusive. Its data is derived from a moment in time and the authors even admit to its limitations.
  • It is in bad taste. Not only is it in bad taste medically, but its in bad taste politically. And this thread is in bad taste because it, just like the creators of the study had a political axe to grind. Obviously. And, as I've mentioned, the study is so poorly constructed that any correlation derived from it should be taken with a grain of salt.
 
No, I'm saying using data from a specific year of a 20 year epidemic to try to explain why Trump got elected is bullshit.
Opioid related deaths peaked under Obama. Did they do a similar study when Obama was elected? Reelected?
This study didn't even explore the counties that may have flipped from Obama to Trump. There is no useful data to be obtained from this poorly constructed study with its biased agenda.

Not only that, but its got that "basket of deplorable" stink to it. Associating Trump voters with dirty filthy drug addicts.
This is a disease, not a political weapon, but if its used as such its going to backfire.

Who cares if they flipped? That's starting to drift back to causation and no one says that Trump caused the opioid crisis. They said that the places experiencing the opioid crisis were more likely to vote for Trump. And that really shouldn't be a surprise if you've followed the opioid crisis or paid attention to which communities voted for Trump and what they stated were their reason for doing so. The overlap between the 2 is easily identified (in fact it was identified back in 2016 here).

I'm not even sure what "agenda" you're alluding to. Trump himself spoke about addressing the opioid crisis during his campaign. How can you claim it's about associating filthy drug addicts with Trump voters when it was a political issue that both candidates addressed before being elected.

None of your criticism makes any sense...at all.
 
  • You admit that is a correlation between places that voted for Trump and those that have higher opioid rates.
But the human toll it has taken on the most populous state is still staggering. California ranks No. 1 when it comes to the raw number of drug-overdose deaths — more than 4,600 victims in 2015, a trend primarily driven by opioids.
edit forgot the link- http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/health/sd-me-opioid-conference-20171108-story.html

California is Trump country?
Opioids are a nationwide epidemic and are not a new thing that has come along since Trump was elected. This thread is absolute bullshit.
 
Last edited:
Who cares if they flipped? That's starting to drift back to causation and no one says that Trump caused the opioid crisis. They said that the places experiencing the opioid crisis were more likely to vote for Trump. And that really shouldn't be a surprise if you've followed the opioid crisis or paid attention to which communities voted for Trump and what they stated were their reason for doing so. The overlap between the 2 is easily identified (in fact it was identified back in 2016 here).

I'm not even sure what "agenda" you're alluding to. Trump himself spoke about addressing the opioid crisis during his campaign. How can you claim it's about associating filthy drug addicts with Trump voters when it was a political issue that both candidates addressed before being elected.

None of your criticism makes any sense...at all.

If you care about the validity of the study then you should care about what the context of the data. That is why you would care about the history of those counties, if you care about the conclusions of the study. Its just one of many gaping holes in the study. And if you are going to bring up the conclusion that places experiencing the opioid crisis were more likely to vote for Trump then you should have data to support that. Again, the crisis didn't begin and end in 2015. There were several elections during this crisis. Thats if you care about the validity of the study, though.

Trump and Hillary and Obama and Sanders and Stein all spoke about the opioid crisis. None of them conducted a study to make a correlation between the opioid epidemic and voting for Trump. The agenda is pretty clear. Its made all the more clear when such a shoddy study is published.

My criticisms are absolutely valid.
 
California is Trump country?
Opioids are a nationwide epidemic and are not a new thing that has come along since Trump was elected. This thread is absolute bullshit.

@Seano thinks the presence of an anecdote invalidates a statistical correlation. On this basis, he concludes that a study in a peer reviewed and respected medical journal "is bullshit."

@Seano is why we can't have nice things.

Trump and Hillary and Obama and Sanders and Stein all spoke about the opioid crisis. None of them conducted a study to make a correlation between the opioid epidemic and voting for Trump. The agenda is pretty clear. Its made all the more clear when such a shoddy study is published. .
You keep repeating the same point-- that the study was "motivated" by an "agenda"... as if that makes the numbers any different than what they are. The correlation is the correlation, regardless of the agenda behind the study. All of your criticism amounts to "this study should not have been done" not "this study is wrong."

I might add that you are assuming the agenda was "use" the opioid crisis to "smear" Trump voters. Maybe-- or maybe they wanted to understand a correlation between a certain political demographic a correlating medical problem... which would hardly be outside the scope of relevance for a medical journal.
 
Last edited:
@Seano thinks the presence of an anecdote invalidates a statistical correlation. On this basis, he concludes that a study in a peer reviewed and respected medical journal "is bullshit."

@Seano you are why we can't have nice things.
@luckyshot seems to not understand there is no need to tag people he quotes.

@luckyshot likes to put tags in his posts for no reason.

@luckyshot seems to think tagging someone nullifies what they said.

Is California Trump country or not? Answer. @luckyshot

Is the opioid epidemic a new thing that began when Trump was elected? Answer @luckyshot
 
@Seano thinks the presence of an anecdote invalidates a statistical correlation. On this basis, he concludes that a study in a peer reviewed and respected medical journal "is bullshit."

@Seano you are why we can't have nice things.

The study admits its weak. You should, too.
 
Trump has turned us all into heroin addicts now.
 
LOL, such edge.
You could also say that Obama has thrown a lifeline to black males, I'm sure the black on black murder rate is way down now that he has gotten things on track for the Darkies.

There is a similarity in the sense that poor and working class blacks under Obama and poor and working class whites under Trump were both completely duped by "their guy" while getting thrown under the plutocratic bus.
 
@luckyshot seems to not understand there is no need to tag people he quotes.

@luckyshot likes to put tags in his posts for no reason.

@luckyshot seems to think tagging someone nullifies what they said.

Is California Trump country or not? Answer. @luckyshot
No, @Seano California is not Trump country.

Also, @Seano at 5.2 opioid deaths per 100,00 people, California has the third LOWEST opioid death rate of any state.
https://host.madison.com/gallery/ne...n_896db162-8e2f-56bc-809e-b5c34f2a818e.html#1

@Seano should check his facts before he calls a study in a medical journal "bullshit."

But @luckyshot has never seen @Seano post a source, so @luckyshot doesn't think this will be happening.

The study admits its weak. You should, too.
1. The study said that it can be difficult to measure illegal opioid use. That's true. So, if that makes this study "weak," we might as well just stop studying opioid use altogether.
2. You are not responding to my criticism-- which is that you are whining about WHY this study was done. It's a study. It was done. If it's valid, it's valid. Next.
 
Last edited:
Objective of study: To explore the overlap between the geographic distribution of US counties with high opioid use and the vote for the Republican candidate in the 2016 presidential election.
Title of study: Association of Chronic Opioid Use With Presidential Voting Patterns in US Counties in 2016
Title of thread: New Study: Trump country = Opioid Country
Conclusion of study:
Experts have struggled to explain both the root causes of the opioid epidemic and the results of the 2016 election. As noted by Mayhew, “in…periods of populist anger the causes of that anger are hard to explain using standard measures of economic well-being.”28

29,30 Public health policy directed at stemming the opioid epidemic must go beyond the medical model and incorporate socioenvironmental disadvantage factors and health behaviors into policy planning and implementation.30,31
 
If you care about the validity of the study then you should care about what the context of the data. That is why you would care about the history of those counties, if you care about the conclusions of the study. Its just one of many gaping holes in the study. And if you are going to bring up the conclusion that places experiencing the opioid crisis were more likely to vote for Trump then you should have data to support that. Again, the crisis didn't begin and end in 2015. There were several elections during this crisis. Thats if you care about the validity of the study, though.

Trump and Hillary and Obama and Sanders and Stein all spoke about the opioid crisis. None of them conducted a study to make a correlation between the opioid epidemic and voting for Trump. The agenda is pretty clear. Its made all the more clear when such a shoddy study is published.

My criticisms are absolutely valid.

There were no studies about any of the others because none of the others won. You posted a link about the growth of the opioid crisis during Obama's time in office. Mitt Romney and John McCain were both still alive at time, no one wrote a piece on what they did/didn't do to address the problem....because they didn't win the election so it doesn't matter. It's a 2 decade old problem. You want studies related to everyone as if their relevance is on the same level as that of the POTUS?

That's what your criticism lacks validity. Your primary complaint seems to be that the study combines an unpleasant scenario and a mention of their voting patterns. You allege "context" but the opioid crisis wasn't a political issue in 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012. It was a political issue in 2016 and so the voting patterns are being paid attention to in 2016.

The other failure of your criticism is that you're not criticizing the study for what it says, your criticism is that other people didn't do similar studies for other elections also. But there was only 1 Presidential election after this crisis became a mainstream issue - the 2016 election. However, there are plenty of stories about what was being done prior to the 2016 election and how elected officials, including the POTUS of the time, Obama, weren't doing enough.

You don't have any consistency here. Do you have a problem with stories blaming Obama's treatment of the issue from pre-2016? Were those stories about an "agenda"? Do you have a problem with this being a political issue going back several years? Or do you only have a problem with this specific study?

To summarize, the opioid crisis became a mainstream political issue during Obama's term in office. Stories were written about this growing section of the population. The population group was being studied and analyzed from multiple angles. All of this fine...until they also study the voting patterns of these people. And then, only then, does it become an "agenda".

I'm sorry but that is not a valid critique of anything if you're going to ignore the years of political attention to this issue to only find a fault with it in 2018.
 
There is a similarity in the sense that poor and working class blacks under Obama and poor and working class whites under Trump were both completely duped by "their guy" while getting thrown under the plutocratic bus.
The poor get fucked regardless of who is charge, white, black, brown... doesn't matter.
I'd like to see less drug addiction across the board, it's a sign of a very unhealthy society.
 
But there is a correlation. Denying it doesn't make it untrue and if you've been following the opioid crisis for some time, you should be aware of those overlapping elements.

Are you suggesting that it's a coincidence that as these parts of the country lost their economic footholds, social standing (increased depression, suicide rates, etc), and increased their drug abuse to cope with it (resulting in higher mortality rates) that they also voted for a political candidate who claimed he could reverse those trends?

These parts of country are dying, sinking into economic ruin and desperate for a solution.
I always found drugs helped me in those desperate times.
 
No, @Seano California is not Trump country.

Also, @Seano at 5.2 opioid deaths per 100,00 people, California has the third LOWEST opioid death rate of any state.
https://host.madison.com/gallery/ne...n_896db162-8e2f-56bc-809e-b5c34f2a818e.html#1

@Seano should check his facts before he calls a study in a medical journal "bullshit."

But @luckyshot has never seen @Seano post a source, so @luckyshot doesn't think will be hapenning.
Still massive number from all angles of the opioid epidemic in California, which is why you used rates to describe the issue in the most densely populated state in the country. They had one of the highest number of deaths/state in 2016. BTW, that still doesn't hold water. I live in Maine, a state that also went to Clinton, and our opioid abuse rate is through the roof.

The opioid issue is not a Trump issue. Its been a long growing tumor in this country that stretches back decades, not just back to November of 2016.

Again, this thread is absurd. Isn't it usually liberals who talk about solving all of our problems by legalizing drugs?
 
m_zoi180047f1.png
 
Back
Top