Need your input: statistics on necessity of police

[HunterSdVa29]

it's hard to imagine, b/c we're imaging presumably a 1st world/developed nation switching to a system w/ no LEO....

B/c there are places like this essentially now, they just clearly aren't developed nations. Part of the reason Somalia is as bad as it is, is there is essentially zero laws/policing/any form of like government whatsoever outside of the main part of Mogadishu. That's not an exaggeration, it's why Warlords still control large swaths of it.

As to Pan's point in the previous post, it's virtually impossible to eradicate crime that stems from poverty, a huge reason why such corruption and violence exists in virtually every 3rd world country in existence. Humans at their most base level generally fall into 'might makes right', or IOW if you're desperate enough you'll take what you need to survive

If anything this would lead to the wealthy employing armed/private security (either individually or through gated communities), and poor communities becoming free for alls. I imagine there'd be an uptick in castle doctrine cases as well b/c if you can't call the cops, then clearly using a weapon to defend oneself would be a more appealing first option.

 

[lifelessheap]

My community would come together and fund a private security agency to patrol. They would be held accountable.

 

[MaxMMA]

If they, actually, USUALLY just respond to crime...it means, they MOSTLY stop it...you didnt think your post through. Clearly, since you think they do little to prevent it. Their very presence prevents it which is why they have to RESPOND to it since people commit crimes AWAY from police.

I can tell by your post that you've had ZERO dealings with criminal elements in your life if you think the police merely existing deters crime. LO fucking L.

You are right about people commiting crime away from police, but not for the reason you think. People commit crimes away from police because you have to be one unlucky mother fucker for the cops to accidentally run up on you in the middle of some ill deed. The percentage of cops to citizens make the possibility of that happening astronomically low.

The crime rate in the US should give you a good idea of how effective the police are. I could be wrong but the amount of unsolved B&E is like 80-90%. The only time I ever got the police involved in my affairs is when I needed their report for an insurance claim. They sure as hell weren't ever going to find my stolen shit.

 

[franklinstower]

All one needs to do is look at what happened when prohibition hit America, police forces were small and ill-equipped...and the power of the mafia shot up so high it has yet to come down...and anyone that thinks it has is a fool.

Then go look at the wild west. Seriously. Town has 1 sheriff, perhaps a deputy or 4 depending on the towns size and the amount of hangings from mob justice was insane...and thats just the hangings.

I did not realized the mafia was still big in the states.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Easy,


If you think police aren’t necessary, there’s a 100% chance you’re retarded.

I'm definitely not willing to say police arent necessary, but there have been towns who got rid of their local police force and got on just fine.

Some places would be fine, and some places would be on fire.... I'd say we keep the coppers

 

[JamesRussler]

k

 

[Amerikuracana]

In the burbs, barely need em to have a first world existence. Although, a local force would emerge, and without oversight, be even more comically repressive in an area that didn't need it.

 

[InternetHero]

It is not so much that the police are necessary, but what you need is an instrument of morality, authority, and justice.

As well, the more people in a community, the more complications.

If you are living in the countryside of Wyoming and are on good terms with your neighbors, the less authority exercised on you the better.

If you are living in a crowded tenement with roving bands of youths around, you desperately need enforcers to temper their aggressive temperaments.

 

[GSP_37]

The local news reported an accused family friend babysitter/molester was found dead somewhere. Can't help wonder if he was really innocent.

 

[CauseImbetta]

Even free market theorist still acknowledge the need for some form of security forces in human interaction.

Your friends analysis is mostly correct on the surface of it. The streets will not run red with the blood of the innocent every moment there isn't a police force present. Despite that, there would be undue suffering. How much suffering would be very hard to quantify.

Do you have stats that show without police in city crime rates increase?

 

[CauseImbetta]

The short answer is that crime certainly would go up without police.
On the other hand, crime would go up more in certain areas, and may not increase at all in different places.
There are many reasons for this, and they should never be discussed.

Why should they never be discussed? The truth is the truth no matter how people try to sugarcoate it. I'm trying to find the statistics that show a crime increase without police presence in cities.

 

[7437]

I still don't see things descending into chaos.

Cheos

 

[JamesRussler]

Why should they never be discussed? The truth is the truth no matter how people try to sugarcoate it. I'm trying to find the statistics that show a crime increase without police presence in cities.

Because the truth only leads to more truth.

 

[The Sole Survivor]

Everyone thought Portugal decriminalizing all drugs was going to be terrible... Yet it wasnt. You think its going to be bad until it actually happens.
Do i know if it will be better without cops, no, but it couldnt hurt to give it a try like Portugal did with drugs(which worked out great)
The US needs to find a solution to its police brutality issue, would dissolving the police be a sustainable solution, I couldnt say until it was tried.

"The opioid crisis soon stabilized, and the ensuing years saw dramatic drops in problematic drug use, HIV and hepatitis infection rates, overdose deaths, drug-related crime and incarceration rates. HIV infection plummeted from an all-time high in 2000 of 104.2 new cases per million to 4.2 cases per million in 2015. The data behind these changes has been studied and cited as evidence by harm-reduction movements around the globe."
https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...licy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

 

[Madmick]

Your friend is a Russeau-ian simpleton, TS.

It's "Rousseau".

I also favor Hobbes.

 

[Prutfis]

All one needs to do is look at what happened when prohibition hit America, police forces were small and ill-equipped...and the power of the mafia shot up so high it has yet to come down...and anyone that thinks it has is a fool.

Then go look at the wild west. Seriously. Town has 1 sheriff, perhaps a deputy or 4 depending on the towns size and the amount of hangings from mob justice was insane...and thats just the hangings.

Actually the west wasn´t nearly as wild or lawless as movies has made it out to be. Once you look past the licoln county wars and the gunfight at the O K Corral there isn´t that much left.

An average settlement in the American West would see one murder per year for every 1,000 to 2,000 residents. The famous Dodge City recorded a total of 15 murders between 1876 and 1885. (Back then 2,000 residents would have been considered a sizable town, with only a handful of towns this big in any Western state. E.g., in 1880, the largest city in Montana had 3,624 residents, and there were only two cities larger than 20,000 in all of the West outside California.)

That is violent compared to the modern United States (the average level nowadays is 1 murder per year per 20,000 residents), but does not quite reach the level you see in Westerns.

 

[Prutfis]

Everyone thought Portugal decriminalizing all drugs was going to be terrible... Yet it wasnt. You think its going to be bad until it actually happens.
Do i know if it will be better without cops, no, but it couldnt hurt to give it a try like Portugal did with drugs(which worked out great)
The US needs to find a solution to its police brutality issue, would dissolving the police be a sustainable solution, I couldnt say until it was tried.

"The opioid crisis soon stabilized, and the ensuing years saw dramatic drops in problematic drug use, HIV and hepatitis infection rates, overdose deaths, drug-related crime and incarceration rates. HIV infection plummeted from an all-time high in 2000 of 104.2 new cases per million to 4.2 cases per million in 2015. The data behind these changes has been studied and cited as evidence by harm-reduction movements around the globe."
https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...licy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

Decrminalizing something is pretty fucking far from having no police. Try decriminalizing murder or bank robberies. See how that goes.

 

[The Sole Survivor]

Decrminalizing something is pretty fucking far from having no police. Try decriminalizing murder or bank robberies. See how that goes.

No.... Decriminalizing ALL drugs pretty damn close.
Its called the 2nd amendment, works faster then a cop, and wont shoot you or your dog.
Whats the saying?
"cops are minutes away when seconds count"
Own a gun. No matter if you support cops or not.

 

[Prutfis]

No.... Decriminalizing ALL drugs pretty damn close.
Its called the 2nd amendment, works faster then a cop, and wont shoot you or your dog.
Whats the saying?
"cops are minutes away when seconds count"
Own a gun. No matter if you support cops or not.

Not an argument at all. Decriminalizing drugs is not the same as having no police. That gun will surely help when a gang of 50 armed assholes invade your house. I don´t think you even know what exactly decriminalizing means.

 

[lfd0311]

That dude went with.... Detroit... as an example of a place where people are NOT murdering each other?