Need your input: statistics on necessity of police

[Otto!]

Some people can’t function within society, and will always take advantage of other human beings whether it’s theft, violence, extorsion. Many act on these imoulses but some are kept in check by the fear of getting caught.

Take away the police and those pos will have free rein.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

You're behind the power curve, the article I posted shows that police are largely ineffective as it pertains to a prosecution when they do respond to reported crime. I could find zero statistics on the effectiveness of police actually catching criminals redhanded commiting criminal acts. I'm assuming because it rarely happens.

That would be because CRIMINALS DO NOT COMMIT CRIMES WITH POLICE AROUND...thus, proving my god damn point again.

 

[MaxMMA]

Lmao at the idiots who liked your post. Super low IQ stuff.

@7437 @no fat chicks @The Sole Survivor

LOL! Another non believer.

Police are not even effective when they concentrate resources and efforts into specific purposes.

Traffic cops- do not prevent people from speeding or doing stupid shit on the road. The amount of revenue generated from traffic citations across the country is a testament to this.

Narcotics- spend countless dollars, months, sometimes even years conducting investigations only to barely dent the profit margins of the drug trade.
How many dealers are "caught in the act" of conducting drug transactions by regular patrolman?

Homicide- The link I provided in an earlier post shows that only half of all reported violent crimes end with a prosecution. How many of those reports were patrolman catching perps redhanded in a violent act?

Robbery/burglary- The link I provided in an earlier post shows that only 1/5 of reported burglaries end in a prosecution. How many robberies/burglary reports are patrolman catching these crimes in progress?

I could find no statistics on what percentage of crimes are stopped by patrolman stumbling upon crime in progress. I'm assuming because it almost never happens... Aside maybe from pulling people over for a traffic violation and then smelling weed in the vehicle.

However here is an interesting post on quora that deducts that no more than 10% of violent crime called into to 911 is stopped in progress by the police.
https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-violent-crimes-are-stopped-by-the-police-while-in-progress

Law enforcement could pull these same shitty numbers by being stationed in the PD until their help is requested.

This notion that cops driving around randomly in patrol cars prevents or somehow deters crime is laughable at best.

Just because something has always been done a certain way doesn't mean that process is the optimal way to conduct business.

But keep telling yourself we need armed security driving around getting in everyone's business and looking for reasons to violate our rights in order for society to act like adults.

That's a slave mentality. You can't handle, nor do you deserve freedom it seems.

 

[superpunch]

I used to think we don't need police. And we really didn't, where I lived. Then I moved out of my safe suburb to a big city -- you definitely need police. If anything, you need more police.

 

[superpunch]

Actually I'm talking about ALL criminals. Including the millions of people that work in the drug trade. If you think the police patrols deter them from doing their "work" then you are out of your mind.

I guess you think the cops parading around on social media with their 5lb drug busts are denting the drug trade and making others think twice about making the easiest money they'll ever make in their entire lives.

Let's get back to the units working traffic. Which have the highest presence on the street. They can't even deter regular people from speeding or parking illegally and you think police patrols make people think twice about doing things above that?

Unbelievable.

Have you ever wanted to clock an asshole in the face with a big right hand? Why didn't you do it? If you say no, you're full of shit.

 

[MaxMMA]

That would be because CRIMINALS DO NOT COMMIT CRIMES WITH POLICE AROUND...thus, proving my god damn point again.

You're an idiot. That's exactly my point. If the cops aren't catching criminals during crimes in progress then what is the point of them driving aimlessly around?

They can keep their asses at the PD until their assistance is requested. You know, instead of driving around harrassing citizens and looking for any excuse to violate someone's rights or find some action.

 

[MaxMMA]

Have you ever wanted to clock an asshole in the face with a big right hand? Why didn't you do it? If you say no, you're full of shit.

I'm not advocating for no police, I'm advocating for limited police presence on the streets.

I have wanted to punch people in the face, all the time, in fact and have done so on multiple occasions. Can you guess how many of those times a police officer just so happened to be driving by when the assault was in progress? Zero.

 

[MaxMMA]

I used to think we don't need police. And we really didn't, where I lived. Then I moved out of my safe suburb to a big city -- you definitely need police. If anything, you need more police.

You maybe right, but what we don't need is shitloads of patrol cars driving around doing nothing. They can be stationed at the PD or even in an outpost in a high crime area and respond to calls as needed.

 

[superpunch]

I'm not advocating for no police, I'm advocating for limited police presence on the streets.

I have wanted to punch people in the face, all the time, in fact and have done so on multiple occasions. Can you guess how many of those times a police officer just so happened to be driving by when the assault was in progress? Zero.

Oh yeah, I agree. Patrolling could definitely be an effective tactic. But it's illegal to stop obvious criminals because of discrimination, so it can't really be effective anyways. But "patrolling" as it's actually practiced is really just trolling for traffic tickets and other such bullshit.

I'd also agree that this is why so many people have no respect for the police -- their only interactions with them have been bullshit, and so they associate police with bullshit. It's similar to the military; we live in a demilitarized (no military presence in the streets), non-threatened country and so many people don't see the need for the military and think it's a joke. I was overseas recently in Korea and the military had an obvious presence and an obvious need, and it brought so much more respect out of me for them.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

LOL! Another non believer.

Police are not even effective when they concentrate resources and efforts into specific purposes.

Traffic cops- do not prevent people from speeding or doing stupid shit on the road. The amount of revenue generated from traffic citations across the country is a testament to this.

Narcotics- spend countless dollars, months, sometimes even years conducting investigations only to barely dent the profit margins of the drug trade.
How many dealers are "caught in the act" of conducting drug transactions by regular patrolman?

Homicide- The link I provided in an earlier post shows that only half of all reported violent crimes end with a prosecution. How many of those reports were patrolman catching perps redhanded in a violent act?

Robbery/burglary- The link I provided in an earlier post shows that only 1/5 of reported burglaries end in a prosecution. How many robberies/burglary reports are patrolman catching these crimes in progress?

I could find no statistics on what percentage of crimes are stopped by patrolman stumbling upon crime in progress. I'm assuming because it almost never happens... Aside maybe from pulling people over for a traffic violation and then smelling weed in the vehicle.

However here is an interesting post on quora that deducts that no more than 10% of violent crime called into to 911 is stopped in progress by the police.
https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-violent-crimes-are-stopped-by-the-police-while-in-progress

Law enforcement could pull these same shitty numbers by being stationed in the PD until their help is requested.

This notion that cops driving around randomly in patrol cars prevents or somehow deters crime is laughable at best.

Just because something has always been done a certain way doesn't mean that process is the optimal way to conduct business.

But keep telling yourself we need armed security driving around getting in everyone's business and looking for reasons to violate our rights in order for society to act like adults.

That's a slave mentality. You can't handle, nor do you deserve freedom it seems.

Not reading this ignorant bullshit. Stopped about a quarter way through.

 

[MaxMMA]

Not reading this ignorant bullshit. Stopped about a quarter way through.

In other words you're too lazy or too stupid to educate my ignorance? Kind of like the last 3 posters that laughed at my initial idea of the less is more approach to police presence.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

Easy,


If you think police aren’t necessary, there’s a 100% chance you’re retarded.

we rarely agree but this is spot on

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

In other words you're too lazy or too stupid to educate my ignorance? Kind of like the last 3 posters that laughed at my initial idea of the less is more approach to police presence.

I mean, do you expect police to be Superheroes? You expect them to be there to stop a crime before it occurs? Your reasoning and logic is stupid as fuck. I can't believe I'm even devoting this much energy to your dumbass.

Think of all the crime that occurs in the U.S., from the petty to the hardcore felonies. Statistically, yes police can't prevent a majority of it, it's humanly impossible. What is the point of your post? To say that police are useless? To propose a disband of law enforcement?

I stand by my original post questioning your intelligence.

 

[MaxMMA]

I mean, do you expect police to be Superheroes? You expect them to be there to stop a crime before it occurs? Your reasoning and logic is stupid as fuck. I can't believe I'm even devoting this much energy to your dumbass.

Think of all the crime that occurs in the U.S., from the petty to the hardcore felonies. Statistically, yes police can't prevent a majority of it, it's humanly impossible. What is the point of your post? To say that police are useless? To propose a disband of law enforcement?

I stand by my original post questioning your intelligence.

If you actually read my posts instead of looking at what you believe to be a negative attack on law enforcement and then drawing your own conclusions based on your flawed view, you would understand what my point is.

Law enforcement doesn't work by stopping crimes before they happen. It works by witnesses reporting crimes and then law enforcement responding.

So why are there thousands of patrol cars randomly cruising the streets looking for ways to justify violating people's rights or springing into action out of pure boredom?

This is why there are so many controversial police interactions with the civilian population, because they place them selves in situations that no one called them into in the first place.

My argument is that the police could be just as effective and probably way more popular than they are now by taking a far less agressive patrolling stance. Instead responding to incedents on an as needed basis. As in they are only needed when someone calls them for their assistance.

Which according to the statistics is where law enforcement has had the greatest effect.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

If you actually read my posts instead of looking at what you believe to be a negative attack on law enforcement and then drawing your own conclusions based on your flawed view, you would understand what my point is.

Law enforcement doesn't work by stopping crimes before they happen. It works by witnesses reporting crimes and then law enforcement responding.

So why are there thousands of patrol cars randomly cruising the streets looking for ways to justify violating people's rights or springing into action out of pure boredom?

This is why there are so many controversial police interactions with the civilian population, because they place them selves in situations that no one called them into in the first place.

My argument is that the police could be just as effective and probably way more popular than they are now by taking a far less agressive patrolling stance. Instead responding to incedents on an as needed basis. As in they are only needed when someone calls them for their assistance.

Which according to the statistics is where law enforcement has had the greatest effect.

As a former LA Sheriff Deputy you are only assuming that is the pure role of a officer. LEOs response and job is dictated upon their training and the direction of their superiors. Never is there a approach to just go around and fuck up peoples days. Does it happen? Of course, LEOs are human, some are assholes, some have bad days, some make mistakes. A LEOs job is upholding the law and enforcing it's rules. The laws predication itself is with police officers to prevent crime.

Your whole "gotcha" tandent here is worthless and not useful and is based on anecdotes that have no bearing on what truly goes on with police officers and it's citizens. Sure go ask 10 random brothas or vatos in certain streets and their census will back you up. Then go take a look at their rap sheet and that is the complete basis around your pathetic little "gotcha" you have running here.

So let me ask you this (i can't believe I'm doing this, I'd rather entertain a @Trotsky or a @luckyshot on these boards), through all your data you've proposed, do you think we should cut back on patrol officers? I ask you this because patrol is all I did and I was running double shifts all the time with mandatory OT, it never stopped. Or, do you think you have a better idea on training? Or change LEO culture.

I'll entertain you for another reply.

 

[MaxMMA]

As a former LA Sheriff Deputy you are only assuming that is the pure role of a officer. LEOs response and job is dictated upon their training and the direction of their superiors. Never is there a approach to just go around and fuck up peoples days. Does it happen? Of course, LEOs are human, some are assholes, some have bad days, some make mistakes. A LEOs job is upholding the law and enforcing it's rules. The laws predication itself is with police officers to prevent crime.

Your whole "gotcha" tandent here is worthless and not useful and is based on anecdotes that have no bearing on what truly goes on with police officers and it's citizens. Sure go ask 10 random brothas or vatos in certain streets and their census will back you up. Then go take a look at their rap sheet and that is the complete basis around your pathetic little "gotcha" you have running here.

So let me ask you this (i can't believe I'm doing this, I'd rather entertain a @Trotsky or a @luckyshot on these boards), through all your data you've proposed, do you think we should cut back on patrol officers? I ask you this because patrol is all I did and I was running double shifts all the time with mandatory OT, it never stopped. Or, do you think you have a better idea on training? Or change LEO culture.

I'll entertain you for another reply.

Yes I believe patrols should be completely eliminated. Based on the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever that patrol officers themselves stop crime in progress without first being notified of a crime by dispatch, which is reported by a civilian witness/victim.

If there is an increase in calls in specific high crime areas then the PD can set up an outpost in that area to respond to those calls faster.

Training is a whole other matter. I believe current law enforcement training and standards are laughable at best. As a police officer I believe half of your time on the clock should be spent in training.

I was an infantryman for 3 years. There is a reason that combat tours lasted for 12-18 months before rotating back stateside for 12-18 months. Rest, recuperation, and training.

Training troops that were stateside for the last 12-18 months on ever evolving tactics and methods that the enemy might employ against them on their upcoming tour that they might not be privy to from their last rotation 12-18 months prior.

You said yourself all you did was work patrol with mandatory OT, so all of your training was on the job training? Day in and day out for what? 10,12, 14 hour shifts? Pretty fucking dangerous if you ask me. A huge disservice to both the officers that work these jobs and the civilians that they are supposed to be there to protect.

I have my personal qualms with law enforcement. Personally I am ashamed of my role in the Iraq war and it's impact on the people of that country, and I believe the current laws of this country and the way they are enforced to be unjust.

But putting personal beliefs aside, there's no debate that law enforcement standards, tactics, training and even pay need a overhaul.

I think the job of a police officer should be more like an SF selection, with great pay and benefits, to the benefit of our entire society.