Need your input: statistics on necessity of police

[CauseImbetta]

I am researching an interesting subject. Maybe you sherbros can help me out. I made a friendly bet with a good friend of mine about policing in the USA. I argued that without police in the usa, particularly in the disfunctional ghetos, it will become cheos. People will tear eachother apart with looting, violence and gangs will fill the void. Gun sales will go up exponentially, it will be survival of the fittest. (Even more than now). All powers go to gangs. Picture mad max. Lord of the flies. RoboCop. We will need to unleash those huge military robots with cannon arms to clean out the city. Without cops in my neighborhood let me tell you I'd bunker in and set up sniper positions.

My good friend is arguing no. Human nature is less dark then what I predict. He mentioned that Detroit didn't have enough money to pay its cops a few years ago, and it didn't turn into the killing fields. I am trying to find statistics. It seems vague and stats can always bolster the argument for both sides.

The argument here is for the usa only. Based on culture and history. Slavery, racism and rugged individualism. We tried to refrain from bringing in external cultures in our discussion like Yakuza, Rowanda, etc...

Do you agree with me that without cops its cheos, cops are a vital part of the judicial system and without them its like the wild west or with my friend who says no. Humans are inherently good. Violence and crime has gone down.

 

[bobgeese]

Easy,


If you think police aren’t necessary, there’s a 100% chance you’re retarded.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Of course police are needed.

If someone mugs me I want them caught and punished by an instrument of the law.

 

[helltoupee]

Moderation is the key.

Give the police too much power, and they beat you up - give them too little power, and the thugs beat you up.

 

[genecop]

Give it whatever name you choose, but someone must be able to keep the criminal element in check..If you did away with the POLICE tommorrow, it would only be a matter of hours before someone went nuts , followed by a group to stop the offender..

 

[luckyshot]

Your friend is a Russeau-ian simpleton, TS.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

All one needs to do is look at what happened when prohibition hit America, police forces were small and ill-equipped...and the power of the mafia shot up so high it has yet to come down...and anyone that thinks it has is a fool.

Then go look at the wild west. Seriously. Town has 1 sheriff, perhaps a deputy or 4 depending on the towns size and the amount of hangings from mob justice was insane...and thats just the hangings.

 

[trident]

Jobs and education opportunities do more to stem violence and crime than policing.

That's why there was a low police presence in where I grew up. Everyone had something to do, all the kids went to school, and the police were usually involved in stuff that was alcohol related, and properly swept under the rug.

 

[trident]

All one needs to do is look at what happened when prohibition hit America, police forces were small and ill-equipped...and the power of the mafia shot up so high it has yet to come down...and anyone that thinks it has is a fool.

Then go look at the wild west. Seriously. Town has 1 sheriff, perhaps a deputy or 4 depending on the towns size and the amount of hangings from mob justice was insane...and thats just the hangings.

Mob justice.

Sounds a lot like the persecutions via modern social media platforms

 

[HunterSdVa29]

police are necessary, absolutely

what isn't necessary is concentrating 90% of your police force into traffic duty, negating the ol beat cop function that actually served to build rapport w/in the community. NOBODY wants to be pulled over, period, hence you have the current distrust w/ people and LEO (regardless of race, I know it's probably worse for certain groups)

People, largely, do not trust or like police. But virtually everyone likes Firemen or doesn't mind them. Why is that? B/c all they do is help people, not cite them......

 

[Higus]

police are necessary, absolutely

what isn't necessary is concentrating 90% of your police force into traffic duty, negating the ol beat cop function that actually served to build rapport w/in the community. NOBODY wants to be pulled over, period, hence you have the current distrust w/ people and LEO (regardless of race, I know it's probably worse for certain groups)

People, largely, do not trust or like police. But virtually everyone likes Firemen or doesn't mind them. Why is that? B/c all they do is help people, not cite them......

You're on to something.
Other trends to consider:
Police fines acting as revenue generators in some areas
The prison industry incentive's the justice system to create a permanent criminal underclass
The militarization of police forces, they treat citizens like an occupied enemy
Fetishization of authoritarian figures

 

[MaxMMA]

Police do very little to prevent crime. In all actuality they usually just respond to crime. There really is no reason why they couldn't just sit at the PD and respond to calls the way the FD does.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

Police do very little to prevent crime. In all actuality they usually just respond to crime.

If they, actually, USUALLY just respond to crime...it means, they MOSTLY stop it...you didnt think your post through. Clearly, since you think they do little to prevent it. Their very presence prevents it which is why they have to RESPOND to it since people commit crimes AWAY from police.

 

[Bagatur]

lol what a retarded idea. one might argue that there is no need for police if there was zero crime, even thought police might have something or a lot to do with it.
prisons are filled with murderers and rapists, probably a lot more are on the loose. it would be a lot worse without police.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

My guess is that society would stay mostly orderly.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

Even free market theorist still acknowledge the need for some form of security forces in human interaction.

Your friends analysis is mostly correct on the surface of it. The streets will not run red with the blood of the innocent every moment there isn't a police force present. Despite that, there would be undue suffering. How much suffering would be very hard to quantify.

 

[Gutter Chris]

My guess is that society would stay mostly orderly.

yea but that 10 percent that didnt would get up to a lot of shit

I think we need cops

But the current way we use them is a little heavy handed and reeks of revenue collection and I think we could take it down a few notches

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

yea but that 10 percent that didnt would get up to a lot of shit

I still don't see things descending into chaos.

 

[Gutter Chris]

I still don't see things descending into chaos.

Some places the chaos is closer to the surface than others.

Im not sure the burbs need cops like they have

It would be bad in Detroit

Unless we are replacing town police with some kind of militia system which I actually think would work wonders in a lot of places.

 

[panamaican]

Some solid answers in here that approximate my own. Absent a police force, you would see some uptick in crime. You do need someone catching criminals and removing them when the locals cannot do it.

Here's a wrinkle worth following - if you got rid of the police, what criminal laws would you also need to get rid of to keep the society running smoothly?

For example - if you made drugs legal then you wouldn't have drug turf wars and the violence that comes when people have to settle disputes outside of the control of the courts.

Similarly, if you got rid of speed limits, the problems they cause would fall squarely on the backs of their insurance companies. Again, negating the need for police.

You couldn't get rid of crimes that arise from poverty though.

So what criminal laws would you get rid of to facilitate the absence/minimization of the police?