Muay thai belt system

[Nuclearlandmine]

I'm getting really confused at SummerStriker's rationales. On one hand he doesn't seemed like he cares about belt system, but on the other hand he advocates belt system, particularly for muay thai, a martial art that traditionally doesn't have a belt system.

 

[CosItsFun]

I'm getting really confused at SummerStriker's rationales. On one hand he doesn't seemed like he cares about belt system, but on the other hand he advocates belt system, particularly for muay thai, a martial art that traditionally doesn't have a belt system.

Yeah i'm kind of getting "Belts are useless, they mean nothing, but lets force them into Muay Thai"

Personally I think you can learn everything in Muay Thai without belts or a belt system, and belts are by no means neccesary, however, if it is used as a means of inspiring students or separating the class into different skill levels (beginner, intermediate, advanced), then its fine I guess

Basically, belts can be used as a way to structure a curriculum/class, but there's other ways to do it as well.

 

[SummerStriker]

Belts are useful for external motivation - something non-fighters sometimes lack.

Belts are useful for curriculum organization - something Muay Thai teachers who run group classes lack.

Belts are not useful for people with strong internal motivation or fighters with regular private instruction.

Belts, like fights, do not mean that the possessor is actually good at martial arts.

Martial arts takes a long time to develop - far longer than the 4-5 years it takes to become ok at system basics.

Once you become good, years after your bb, you will no longer care about belts, even if you did before, because you see how far you have come.

If you still care about belts after many years, it is because you have not gained the real value of self development or are choosing to play games with people.

 

[NAKMUAY18]

Between the "most guys I know just coast" or they were "winning because they were stronger" it's starting to sound like your the one that doest know "jack-shit" about MT.
Nobody I train with "coasts", because they don't last. The longer you train the more that's expected, if your "coasting" you can sit in the pad banging class with the beginners, because guys aren't going to take it easy on you because you can't be bothered to work.

If a guy is 6-1 in MT that means his opponent probably had a similar record, be it 4-2, 3-3, even 2-5. Guys are matched by records, the chances of somebody fighting a debut fighter by the time you get to 6-1 are pretty fucking slim. That's how people that REALLY train MT look at each other on paper.

If you your too scared or lazy to fight and build a record that's up to you, but MT is a sport, so you don't do MT unless you fight or are building up to fight.
The same way me hitting a golf ball at a driving range doesn't mean I play Golf.

 

[SummerStriker]

Between the "most guys I know just coast" or they were "winning because they were stronger" it's starting to sound like your the one that doest know "jack-shit" about MT.
Nobody I train with "coasts", because they don't last. The longer you train the more that's expected, if your "coasting" you can sit in the pad banging class with the beginners, because guys aren't going to take it easy on you because you can't be bothered to work.

If a guy is 6-1 in MT that means his opponent probably had a similar record, be it 4-2, 3-3, even 2-5. Guys are matched by records, the chances of somebody fighting a debut fighter by the time you get to 6-1 are pretty fucking slim. That's how people that REALLY train MT look at each other on paper.

If you your too scared or lazy to fight and build a record that's up to you, but MT is a sport so you don't do MT.
The same way me hitting a golf ball at a driving range doesn't mean I play Golf.

I didn't say the guy wasn't tough for being 6-1. I'm just saying that lots of people have stories about why they are tough and that it doesn't necessarily make it so. Like I said, I act like I believe anything anyone tells me about themselves.

So you are a tough guy? That's great for you.

But it is of no value to me if they can't provide a good sparring partner or teach me anything. I'm not going to kowtow to someone just because of their story about how they did something that was tough. I wouldn't have this opinion if it weren't born out of experience with people.

Unless they are a veteran of an actual military conflict. That's different.

Maybe you come from the land of fighters and I'm weak to you. I shouldn't have to explain every time I post something that I didn't do a university study and that this comes from my personal subjective experience.

No one owns MT. Anyone can do anything and call it MT. If an MT guy with a record makes a belt system and gives those belts to his students, there are now belts in MT.

 

[CosItsFun]

Belts are useful for external motivation - something non-fighters sometimes lack.

Belts are useful for curriculum organization - something Muay Thai teachers who run group classes lack.

Belts are not useful for people with strong internal motivation or fighters with regular private instruction.

Belts, like fights, do not mean that the possessor is actually good at martial arts.

Martial arts takes a long time to develop - far longer than the 4-5 years it takes to become ok at system basics.

Once you become good, years after your bb, you will no longer care about belts, even if you did before, because you see how far you have come.

If you still care about belts after many years, it is because you have not gained the real value of self development or are choosing to play games with people.

I agree with it all until here. Someone who has legitly (eg. no thrown fights) won a number of matches suggests a level of proficiency in the combat sport. But then, I see what you're saying as well, as maybe there opponents were bad or considerably smaller etc.

Between the "most guys I know just coast" or they were "winning because they were stronger" it's starting to sound like your the one that doest know "jack-shit" about MT.
Nobody I train with "coasts", because they don't last. The longer you train the more that's expected, if your "coasting" you can sit in the pad banging class with the beginners, because guys aren't going to take it easy on you because you can't be bothered to work.

If a guy is 6-1 in MT that means his opponent probably had a similar record, be it 4-2, 3-3, even 2-5. Guys are matched by records, the chances of somebody fighting a debut fighter by the time you get to 6-1 are pretty fucking slim. That's how people that REALLY train MT look at each other on paper.

If you your too scared or lazy to fight and build a record that's up to you, but MT is a sport, so you don't do MT unless you fight or are building up to fight.
The same way me hitting a golf ball at a driving range doesn't mean I play Golf.

I think if you still train Muay Thai and incorporate the philosophy, then you do "do muay thai".
And your example is wrong, cos then well you do play golf (in a recreational sense) you just choose not to compete in it.

 

[NAKMUAY18]

I didn't say the guy wasn't tough for being 6-1. I'm just saying that lots of people have stories about why they are tough and that it doesn't necessarily make it so. Like I said, I act like I believe anything anyone tells me about themselves.

So you are a tough guy? That's great for you.

But it is of no value to me if they can't provide a good sparring partner or teach me anything. I'm not going to kowtow to someone just because of their story about how they did something that was tough. I wouldn't have this opinion if it weren't born out of experience with people.

Unless they are a veteran of an actual military conflict. That's different.

Maybe you come from the land of fighters and I'm weak to you. I shouldn't have to explain every time I post something that I didn't do a university study and that this comes from my personal subjective experience.

No one owns MT. Anyone can do anything and call it MT. If an MT guy with a record makes a belt system and gives those belts to his students, there are now belts in MT.

I never mentioned how tough anybody was for fighting MT?!? Fighting requires determination, courage, sacrifice. Toughness wont get you very far by itself, you can ask all the Saturday night brawler. The're all tough guys, ask them to drop 20lbs and kick a bag 500 times a day for 6weeks and see what happens.

Like it or not MT is a sport. It is owned by federations and commission. It's practitioners are defined by how they proform in the ring. Of course it's possible to know about MT without fighting. It still doesn't mean you've done it.

All belt's do is give guys that are too scared or lazy to fight some self gratification.

 

[NAKMUAY18]

Cos,
When you play golf with other people do you keep score? Do you try to beat the guys your playing with?

When you spar MT do you try to beat your partner? If you rock a guy do you try to finish him off?

 

[Paradigm]

I didn't say the guy wasn't tough for being 6-1. I'm just saying that lots of people have stories about why they are tough and that it doesn't necessarily make it so. Like I said, I act like I believe anything anyone tells me about themselves.

So you are a tough guy? That's great for you.

But it is of no value to me if they can't provide a good sparring partner or teach me anything. I'm not going to kowtow to someone just because of their story about how they did something that was tough. I wouldn't have this opinion if it weren't born out of experience with people.

Unless they are a veteran of an actual military conflict. That's different.

Maybe you come from the land of fighters and I'm weak to you. I shouldn't have to explain every time I post something that I didn't do a university study and that this comes from my personal subjective experience.

No one owns MT. Anyone can do anything and call it MT. If an MT guy with a record makes a belt system and gives those belts to his students, there are now belts in MT.

again, i have to raise the question...why arent you advocating belts for boxing and wrestling?

if the Thais arent doing it, why should some American guy? aside from the obvious reason of making more money...

or why not take stuff you learned from Muay Thai, add in some other shit, start using belts and call it your own system? that way, youre not distorting what people perceive Muay Thai to be?

 

[SummerStriker]

again, i have to raise the question...why arent you advocating belts for boxing and wrestling?

if the Thais arent doing it, why should some American guy? aside from the obvious reason of making more money...

or why not take stuff you learned from Muay Thai, add in some other shit, start using belts and call it your own system? that way, youre not distorting what people perceive Muay Thai to be?

Well, your last option I think is the best option.

If someone made belts for boxing or wrestling, I wouldn't shame them for it.

 

[nomilkforsanta]

again, i have to raise the question...why arent you advocating belts for boxing and wrestling?

One could argue that they do have "belts"...

Wrestling:
Jr Varsity (jacket)
Varsity (jacket)
D3, D2, D1 (jacket)

Boxing:
Amateur (card)
Pro (card)

 

[CosItsFun]

Cos,
When you play golf with other people do you keep score? Do you try to beat the guys your playing with?

When you spar MT do you try to beat your partner? If you rock a guy do you try to finish him off?

I don't play golf, im not rich lol wouldnt know. But when I play football (soccer) yes, yes i do.

And no, because it is not a competiton, but you are still doing muay thai in the sense that you are executing muay thai techniques, hopefully.

So if two people are doing the exact same training, yet one wants to compete and the other doesnt, only the one wanting to compete actually does muay thai?

 

[nomilkforsanta]

I don't play golf, im not rich lol wouldnt know. But when I play football (soccer) yes, yes i do.

And no, because it is not a competiton, but you are still doing muay thai in the sense that you are executing muay thai techniques, hopefully.

So if two people are doing the exact same training, yet one wants to compete and the other doesnt, only the one wanting to compete actually does muay thai?

Muay Thai is a combat sport.
Combat sports require competition.
Competition in combat sports is fighting.
Muay thai is fighting.


Many people play Muay Thai, not many compete.

 

[Paradigm]

Muay Thai is a combat sport.
Combat sports require competition.
Competition in combat sports is fighting.
Muay thai is fighting.


Many people play Muay Thai, not many compete.

ive never heard of people "playing" Muay Thai (even if they dont fight)...i have heard of them "playing" other arts (like BJJ/Judo).

was gonna bring up the combat sport thing in my other post, but isnt a TKD tournament basically an example of a combat sport also? they happen to have belts but its not what people think of when they think combat sports (ie: boxing/Muay Thai/kickboxing/etc).

 

[nomilkforsanta]

ive never heard of people "playing" Muay Thai (even if they dont fight)...i have heard of them "playing" other arts (like BJJ/Judo).

was gonna bring up the combat sport thing in my other post, but isnt a TKD tournament basically an example of a combat sport also? they happen to have belts but its not what people think of when they think combat sports (ie: boxing/Muay Thai/kickboxing/etc).

I did TKD, the reyes family had a gym within walking distance from my house as a child. They always came across vain, granted this was during the TMNT movie/Surf Ninja craze. That being said, I wonder if you need a black belt to compete at the olympic level? Do TKD olympians people practice forms and care about belts/degrees?

P.S. I don't fight, yet alone play muay thai anymore, I only hold and hit pads because I don't want to get a seventh concussion. :redface:

 

[NAKMUAY18]

I don't play golf, im not rich lol wouldnt know. But when I play football (soccer) yes, yes i do.

And no, because it is not a competiton, but you are still doing muay thai in the sense that you are executing muay thai techniques, hopefully.

So if two people are doing the exact same training, yet one wants to compete and the other doesnt, only the one wanting to compete actually does muay thai?

If you only ever played soccer in the park, 3v3, shirts v skins with t-shirts for goalposts, would you call yourself a soccer player? Or would you have to play a full 11 a side game before your a soccer player?

I'm not saying you need to have done 5 rounds bare shin with knees and elbows to have done some Muay Thai, but if you've never even done an interclub, you've never done MT fully contested.

 

[Marbig]

Boxing:
Amateur (card)
Pro (card)

You guys get a card? How does it look like? We only get a pale blue book that has a cardboard cover (totally jelly)...

On topic...actually I don't even know what the topic is lol. I just clicked on the thread and this is the first thing I saw.

EDIT: Actually going to post a proper reply after I look through these 10 pages...

 

[CosItsFun]

If you only ever played soccer in the park, 3v3, shirts v skins with t-shirts for goalposts, would you call yourself a soccer player? Or would you have to play a full 11 a side game before your a soccer player?

I'm not saying you need to have done 5 rounds bare shin with knees and elbows to have done some Muay Thai, but if you've never even done an interclub, you've never done MT fully contested.

If you train football with people who do compete on a local level, you would still say you play football.
football. not soccer btw. Darn 'Muricans.

I think, the thing is, for some people Muay Thai is more of a Martial Art, whilst for others, it is more of a combat sport.
Some people see it as a way of life outside of training, whilst others also view it as a sport similar to golf or "soccer"
I think its very possible to study the martial art of Muay Thai without competing in Muay Thai competitions.

Most of the time when people say I do a martial art, we take that to mean they train in it, and not necessarily compete. Well, at least I do.

 

[NAKMUAY18]

Dude your the one that brought up the S word. I just said it so North Americans didn't get it confused with "Shit Rugby with helmets".
If somebody hits pads and doest spar, are they doing Muay Thai or cardio kickboxing?

 

[CosItsFun]

Dude your the one that brought up the S word. I just said it so North Americans didn't get it confused with "Shit Rugby with helmets".
If somebody hits pads and doest spar, are they doing Muay Thai or cardio kickboxing?

Lol yeah i know, i was just joking.

You can spar and not compete though