Most Versatile Submission?

Ezekiel, armbar, and twisting leglocks. You can practically get them from any position. They might not be high percentage from every position, but there's almost always a ridiculous way to sneak one of these in. Ezekiel is very much underutilized.
 
dza76wutang said:
Not to sound like a simpleton, but some of these are moves I only know of being "hittable" from specific spots.

Could someone possibly explain how they can catch the following:

Omoplata from pretty much any where but full guard. This one is really boggling my mind, and this is excellent because I love omoplatas and would love to learn alternative ways to hit them.

D'arce/Brabo/Anaconda - The only places I've seen these hit from are top turtle/sprawl, and top 1/2-guard. Once again, I'd love to hear where and how you guys are nailing these.

Keylock - The only places I can imagine this working from is top side, and top mount. Where else does it pop up?

Continuing with versatility discussion:
Head/Arm triangle is another good one, I can't believe I missed it in my initial assessment, same w/ the fig-4 footlock, and I love footlocks :). I have Stephen Kesting's high % leglock dvd with the special fig-4 add-on but I haven't had time to watch it yet due to grad-school and work, this thread reaffirms that it was a good purchase :)
Click to expand...

You can get omoplata from top if you're willing to risk position and roll into it. For example, off a single leg. You can get it from side, anywhere you can entangle the arm in your legs. Not always a high percentage.

You can get the D'arce from under side control, and go for it from any non-full-guard top position.

You can also get the keylock from the guard (if you can go to a "high guard").

Those are some less common variations that I know.
 
hard to beat the Kimura...

You can get that submission from damn near anywhere!
 
For me its the triangle. You can catch them everywhere. Open guard, closed guard, scrambles, omo plata, mounts, side mount, back... Anytime you can clear an arm.
 
for me, armbars just bc i can always threaten them. after reading this thread, i am going to work much more on kimuras for the sweeps
 
dza76wutang said:
I was trying to think about this from a puzzle/optimization problem P.O.V. and not propose a topic that can devolve into a pissing contest or style vs style debate but I was wondering what people thought are the MOST VERSATILE submissions in grappling. Versatile meaning they can be applied from lots of positions, so like guard, sidemount, mount, backmount, standing, etc etc etc, without losing points on efficacy and success rate. So if you can hit a heelhook from literally anywhere with 1% success, I wouldn't consider that versatile for the purposes of this discussion.

My top 2 are:
Straight Armbar - can be done reasonably easily from...mount, side mount, knee on belly, bottom full guard, back mount top, and also standing as a flying armbar (not very high percentage, imo, but I think it could be amongst good fliers so I won't exclude it, I don't do flying stuff so idk).
Kimura - can be done reasonably easily from...side mount top, 1/2 guard top, 1/2 guard bottom, full guard bottom, standing as counter to rear body lock, north-south, knee on belly

so that's ~6 vs ~7, and that's just off the top of my head, what I've seen, what I can do.

Anyone else have ideas to add?
Click to expand...

You mention the Kimura as a counter to the rear body lock, but you don't mention the straight=arm as a sub from the same position. It should be done in a progression if im not mistaken. Meaning you fight the hands, and attack one arm with the straight-arm, then if they defend you turn it into the kimura and sweep. At least that is how i see it. So +1 to the straight-arm?
 
For me personally, the guillotine has proven to be a very versatile submission. It can be found in guard, from top and bottom half guard, to counter side control escapes, from mount, from top of turtle, and as part of takedown defense.

But outside of my own personal game, I would say pretty much every major submission is very versatile. I have seen people who are effective with triangles, armbars, gi chokes, arm triangles, keylocks, kimuras, and leglocks from just about everywhere. It's easier to list the subs that aren't versatile than the ones that are.
 
How about the knebar, another one you can hit from -alot- of positions...
 
gogos man. cuz those subs version of versitality's too mainstream 4-ya dude.
 
No love for wristlocks?
 
and survey says (so far)

  • kimura 8
  • armbar 6
  • arm triangle variations (i.e., d'arce) 6
  • ezekiel 4
  • triangle 4
  • toe-hold, twisting leg locks 4
  • omoplata 2
  • americana 2
  • kneebar 1
  • rnc 1
  • gogoplata 1
  • guillotine 1
  • calf slicer 1
  • wristlock 1
 
Since you are considering arm triangle variations together, there is no doubt, unless I am completely ignoring something obvious, that they are the winner.

That's 3 major variations, which one or more of can be done from:
Guard-top
Guard-bottom
Half-top
Half-bottom
Side-top
Side-bottom
N/S-top
N/S-bottom
Mount-top
Mount-bottom
Neon-belly-top
From the back
From their turtle/shot

If you played the same game with armbars, reverse armbars, z-armbars, overhook armbars, etc--you'll probably win with armbars for numbers. In terms of positional versatility, the arm triangle wins IMO.
 
Art Vandelay said:
Since you are considering arm triangle variations together, there is no doubt, unless I am completely ignoring something obvious, that they are the winner.

That's 3 major variations, which one or more of can be done from:
Guard-top
Guard-bottom
Half-top
Half-bottom
Side-top
Side-bottom
N/S-top
N/S-bottom
Mount-top
Mount-bottom
Neon-belly-top
From the back
From their turtle/shot

If you played the same game with armbars, reverse armbars, z-armbars, overhook armbars, etc--you'll probably win with armbars for numbers. In terms of positional versatility, the arm triangle wins IMO.
Click to expand...


you guys are underestimating the relentless versatility of the Ezekial. Nothing else even comes close. Take all the positons listed above and add some inferior ones like:

under mount
inside guard

and this can even be applied to fortify and enhance another submission like the arm-triangle (or Darce). This is how Kron actually got submitted at the worlds last year. And what I wrote barely scratches the surface.

Ezekial easily takes this one. The argument can be made for 3rd, and maybe 2nd place.
 
Art Vandelay said:
Since you are considering arm triangle variations together, there is no doubt, unless I am completely ignoring something obvious, that they are the winner.

That's 3 major variations, which one or more of can be done from:
Guard-top
Guard-bottom
Half-top
Half-bottom
Side-top
Side-bottom
N/S-top
N/S-bottom
Mount-top
Mount-bottom
Neon-belly-top
From the back
From their turtle/shot

If you played the same game with armbars, reverse armbars, z-armbars, overhook armbars, etc--you'll probably win with armbars for numbers. In terms of positional versatility, the arm triangle wins IMO.
Click to expand...


you guys are underestimating the relentless versatility of the Ezekial. Nothing else even comes close. Take all the positons listed above and add some inferior ones like:

under mount
inside guard

and this can even be applied to fortify and enhance another submission like the arm-triangle (or Darce). This is how Kron actually got submitted at the worlds last year. And what I wrote barely scratches the surface.

Ezekial easily takes this one. The argument can be made for 3rd, and maybe 2nd place.
 
Art Vandelay said:
Since you are considering arm triangle variations together, there is no doubt, unless I am completely ignoring something obvious, that they are the winner.

That's 3 major variations, which one or more of can be done from:
Guard-top
Guard-bottom
Half-top
Half-bottom
Side-top
Side-bottom
N/S-top
N/S-bottom
Mount-top
Mount-bottom
Neon-belly-top
From the back
From their turtle/shot

If you played the same game with armbars, reverse armbars, z-armbars, overhook armbars, etc--you'll probably win with armbars for numbers. In terms of positional versatility, the arm triangle wins IMO.
Click to expand...


you guys are underestimating the relentless versatility of the Ezekial. Nothing else even comes close. Take all the positons listed above and add some inferior ones like:

under mount
inside guard

and this can even be applied to fortify and enhance another submission like the arm-triangle (or Darce). This is how Kron actually got submitted at the worlds last year. And what I wrote barely scratches the surface.

Ezekial easily takes this one. The argument can be made for 3rd, and maybe 2nd place.
 
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