Most Versatile Submission?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by dza76wutang, Jan 17, 2009.

  1. Mikey Triangles

    Mikey Triangles Bending Joints the Wrong Way Since 1985

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Messages:
    7,846
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    Biloxi, Mississippi

    you guys are underestimating the relentless versatility of the Ezekial. Nothing else even comes close. Take all the positons listed above and add some inferior ones like:

    under mount
    inside guard

    and this can even be applied to fortify and enhance another submission like the arm-triangle (or Darce). This is how Kron actually got submitted at the worlds last year. And what I wrote barely scratches the surface.

    Ezekial easily takes this one. The argument can be made for 3rd, and maybe 2nd place.
     
    georgegreece and Fish like this.
  2. Mikey Triangles

    Mikey Triangles Bending Joints the Wrong Way Since 1985

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Messages:
    7,846
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    Biloxi, Mississippi
    EDIT- Sorry for the Quin-post.... my comp was jacked and this site wasn't helping.
     
  3. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay Latex Salesman

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    4,179
    Likes Received:
    2
    Both of your additional positions were included in my list.
     
  4. Mikey Triangles

    Mikey Triangles Bending Joints the Wrong Way Since 1985

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Messages:
    7,846
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    Biloxi, Mississippi
    my bad... however, I don't really see the arm-triangle as much of threat from those inferior positions unless there's a major difference in strength/skill. Not only is it very difficult to finish with the limited leverage you'd have, but it's also very difficult to apply from there. The ezekial on the other hand has to be taken seriously from anywhere, and it's easy to hit.
     
    Fish likes this.
  5. NougatMcCrunch

    NougatMcCrunch Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,530
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'd have to pick the kimura over the armbar. While they are both extremely versatile, the kimura sets up sweeps more often. Gives it the edge.
     
    Fish likes this.
  6. Fish

    Fish White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    1
    I focused on the Ezekiel Choke because of its versatility. There are good modifications for the street as well. If no jacket or long shirt, variations can be done with an attacker's T Shirt.
     
  7. Fish

    Fish White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    1
    Totally agree wrt Ezekiel
     
  8. Fish

    Fish White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    1
    I've heard about the Kimura's versatility. I'm going to focus more on it.
     
  9. Fish

    Fish White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    1
    I agree - a few peeps did mention it.
    What would you place second, Kimura?
     
  10. Spoonman7

    Spoonman7 Red Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2003
    Messages:
    8,999
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    California
    Hard question to answer, all the basic submissions: kimura, keylock, armbar, guillotine ,traingle can be hit from virtually any position, top or bottom, and in transition. Kimura and guilltoines can be used to pass the guard and to stop guard passing. There is more than one correct answer to this question
     
    Fish and mataleaos like this.
  11. Mikey Triangles

    Mikey Triangles Bending Joints the Wrong Way Since 1985

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Messages:
    7,846
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    Biloxi, Mississippi
    This thread got bumped from when I was a purple belt

    Anyway I think my argument would have been that attacks like the kimura would be more versatile if we are talking about positional gains, but many of the unorthodox positions people can grab those attacks the threat of impending submission is very limited even though you are being forcibly manipulated positionally, where as when an Ezekiel is locked on from anywhere you are fighting for your life against a submission. You don't see an Ezekiel used often to gain a positional advantage, it's a kill shot.

    I agree that there is definitely more than one right answer, and even the art Has kind of evolved since this thread was made almost 9 years ago.
     
  12. Dirty Holt

    Dirty Holt Black Belt Professional Fighter

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    5,056
    Likes Received:
    1,294
    Location:
    Olympic Training Center
    If you want to talk about extreme versatility, the wrist lock gets it "hands down". You can hit them from any position, and you can hit the lock both directions.
     
    ngarauru and SummerStriker like this.
  13. mattemate

    mattemate Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2004
    Messages:
    4,030
    Likes Received:
    780
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I like to use an Americana to reverse side control. I can reverse even good black belts with it if I catch it in transition before they settle. Actually finished a very game white belt with it the other day
     
  14. Striderxdj

    Striderxdj Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2011
    Messages:
    4,493
    Likes Received:
    1,220
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Ezekiel for me and the only thing even close is Americana.
     
  15. MaxMMA

    MaxMMA Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,245
    Likes Received:
    1,206
    The guillotine/front headlock awesome to hit standing, love to threaten with it then switch to dirty boxing when they pull out. Great position of control while standing with lots of takedown and reversal options.

    Triangle, as good as an attack from mount/side mount/back mount as it is from guard.

    Kimura, there's almost never a wrong time to use a this move to submit or advance position.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  16. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    7,379
    Likes Received:
    1,653
    I goose necked a guy from inside his closed guard very recently. It might be the only submission I remember doing from inside someone's guard.
     
  17. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    7,379
    Likes Received:
    1,653
    Did you see the guy who hit it in the UFC from under mount? He got the hand position while the guy was in top side and let him mount. When he transitioned, the bottom man adjusted his grip and squeezed. Dude must have thought he was going to die.
     
    Mikey Triangles, mattemate and MaxMMA like this.
  18. MaxMMA

    MaxMMA Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,245
    Likes Received:
    1,206
    My jaw almost hit the floor.
     
    mattemate and SummerStriker like this.
  19. Mikey Triangles

    Mikey Triangles Bending Joints the Wrong Way Since 1985

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Messages:
    7,846
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    Biloxi, Mississippi

    Wristlocks? come on, thats' like saying "chokes".
     
  20. georgegreece

    georgegreece Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2014
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    157
    Kneeee baaaar. <Moves> No seriously you can hit it from anywhere and then you can transition to other leg locks or take the back.
     

Share This Page