Most Versatile Submission?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by dza76wutang, Jan 17, 2009.

  1. dza76wutang Black Belt

    dza76wutang
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,591
    Likes Received:
    131
    Location:
    Providence, Rhode Island
    I was trying to think about this from a puzzle/optimization problem P.O.V. and not propose a topic that can devolve into a pissing contest or style vs style debate but I was wondering what people thought are the MOST VERSATILE submissions in grappling. Versatile meaning they can be applied from lots of positions, so like guard, sidemount, mount, backmount, standing, etc etc etc, without losing points on efficacy and success rate. So if you can hit a heelhook from literally anywhere with 1% success, I wouldn't consider that versatile for the purposes of this discussion.

    My top 2 are:
    Straight Armbar - can be done reasonably easily from...mount, side mount, knee on belly, bottom full guard, back mount top, and also standing as a flying armbar (not very high percentage, imo, but I think it could be amongst good fliers so I won't exclude it, I don't do flying stuff so idk).
    Kimura - can be done reasonably easily from...side mount top, 1/2 guard top, 1/2 guard bottom, full guard bottom, standing as counter to rear body lock, north-south, knee on belly

    so that's ~6 vs ~7, and that's just off the top of my head, what I've seen, what I can do.

    Anyone else have ideas to add?
     
    #1
  2. Yojimbo Brown Belt

    Yojimbo
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,446
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    The PFJ
    omoplata can be done from practically every position
     
    #2
  3. Mikey Triangles Bending Joints the Wrong Way Since 1985

    Mikey Triangles
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Messages:
    7,836
    Likes Received:
    90
    Location:
    Biloxi, Mississippi
    I think this is an easy win for the "Ezekial Choke", since it can literally be hit and finished from anywhere you have both arms and you're facing your opponent (and they don't have to be facing you); including from inferior positions and other submissions.

    The Toe-Hold would probably be #2 as this can be hit from anywhere you can reach your opponents foot with both hands. A lot of leglocks would also kind of intertwine with the toe-hold in combination; espeically the knee bar and heelhook.

    The Artriangle/Darce is also extremely versatile and would probably take 3rd.

    Shoulder locks like the americana and kimura are extremely versitile, but not always as a submission. same goes for the guillotine. they can be used effectively to escape bad positions sometimes, but aren't usually finished from them. they are also easily countered by an experienced opponent.

    after that submissions like armbars and triangles would come in.
     
    #3
    mattemate likes this.
  4. Will Jacobs Gold Belt

    Will Jacobs
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Messages:
    24,765
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Chicago
    The triangle - the great equalizer for us little guys.

    I can grab it from any position and there are so many variations that my lanky dwarf body can transition to a dozen more if I need to. I like to get wrist control and throw it on from back control just to piss people off.
     
    #4
  5. ashley1234 White Belt

    ashley1234
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Port Colborne, Ont
    Kimura, plain and simple.
     
    #5
    ngarauru likes this.
  6. JSN #NotMyNelly

    JSN
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    35,386
    Likes Received:
    4,851
    Location:
    America (FUCK YEAH!)
    not only is the kimura a great sub you can get from many positions, but it is also often the easiest way to set up a sweep.
     
    #6
    zeli_papa likes this.
  7. lethalazn Purple Belt

    lethalazn
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,604
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    preferably behind you, with both hooks sunk in
    for me...rear naked choke

    I know this might leave some of you scratching your heads but think about how many places you can snatch the back harness from

    The Mount
    Side Mount
    North South
    While opponent is trying to pass your guard
    While opponent's inside your guard
    When attempting to pass the open guard
    Off a failed Armbar
    off a failed Kimura

    I'm sure there's more...but you get the point
     
    #7
  8. cab3rto Blue Belt

    cab3rto
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    559
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Hawaii
    reverse inverted triple decker pecker wrecker
     
    #8
  9. Art Vandelay Latex Salesman

    Art Vandelay
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    4,179
    Likes Received:
    2
    If you consider all variations, the arm triangle. If separate, the arm triangle, brabo, and ezekiel are my bets.
     
    #9
    ngarauru likes this.
  10. Drew Foster Silver Belt

    Drew Foster
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    11,764
    Likes Received:
    5
    Omoplata 1st
    Kimura 2nd
    Drce/Triangle tied for 3rd
     
    #10
  11. Mongol Red Belt

    Mongol
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    8,658
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Neither here nor there
    The toe hold, although not often attempted, can be done from just about any position including being mounted
     
    #11
  12. EternalRag3 Rear Naked Poker

    EternalRag3
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2007
    Messages:
    2,693
    Likes Received:
    49
    Location:
    Long Island
    Keylock.

    Also, for lack of a better term, the "twister roll." Basically anytime you have your leg hooked around your opponent's leg (like your right leg on his right leg), you can roll and end up with your opponent turtling and you with a hook in. Can do it from topside half guard, topside reverse scarfhold (ie "twister side control"), from mount (if they sneak a low half guard on your ankle), and standing (from kouchi gari).
     
    #12
  13. Drew Foster Silver Belt

    Drew Foster
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    11,764
    Likes Received:
    5
    Yea cause then you'd have thr arm triangle, darce/brabo, and anaconda chokes.
     
    #13
  14. Jagcorps_esq Red Belt

    Jagcorps_esq
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    9,341
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    Ezekiel and straight arm bar.
     
    #14
    Fish likes this.
  15. YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

    YeahBee
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2006
    Messages:
    24,961
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Land of the Ice and Snow
    Armbar/jujigatame, easy entries with few steps from pretty much any position

    even several different versions from the same position
     
    #15
  16. theproblem20 Purple Belt

    theproblem20
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,907
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Fresh Coast
  17. Mikey Triangles Bending Joints the Wrong Way Since 1985

    Mikey Triangles
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Messages:
    7,836
    Likes Received:
    90
    Location:
    Biloxi, Mississippi


    FYI it ceases to be a REAR naked choke when you're not behind the guy. I think you're wrapping up the guillotine, FNC, No-Arm Darce, and Monson choke all into one...
     
    #17
  18. grapplingnub** Banned

    grapplingnub**
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Messages:
    720
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Hamilton, Ontario
    i myself was thinking the D'arce.
     
    #18
  19. dza76wutang Black Belt

    dza76wutang
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,591
    Likes Received:
    131
    Location:
    Providence, Rhode Island
    Not to sound like a simpleton, but some of these are moves I only know of being "hittable" from specific spots.

    Could someone possibly explain how they can catch the following:

    Omoplata from pretty much any where but full guard. This one is really boggling my mind, and this is excellent because I love omoplatas and would love to learn alternative ways to hit them.

    D'arce/Brabo/Anaconda - The only places I've seen these hit from are top turtle/sprawl, and top 1/2-guard. Once again, I'd love to hear where and how you guys are nailing these.

    Keylock - The only places I can imagine this working from is top side, and top mount. Where else does it pop up?

    Continuing with versatility discussion:
    Head/Arm triangle is another good one, I can't believe I missed it in my initial assessment, same w/ the fig-4 footlock, and I love footlocks :). I have Stephen Kesting's high % leglock dvd with the special fig-4 add-on but I haven't had time to watch it yet due to grad-school and work, this thread reaffirms that it was a good purchase :)
     
    #19
  20. Balto Silver Belt

    Balto
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    12,615
    Likes Received:
    681
    You can hit the omoplata from any top position. An easy example would be from the mount. If the opponent turns on his side, you can attack his top arm with an omoplata by folding your leg under it. Then you can either roll through to an omoplata or simply move off to the side to pull him onto his stomach.

    The chokes you mentioned can also be hit from any top position. This should be easy enough to picture especially since you already know how to do it from top half guard. To do it from top side control, just start in side control instead of half guard. It is the same idea. You can also do it from the guard by crossing an arm and sitting up to grab the choke.

    You can do a keylock with your legs from top scarfhold. You can also do a keylock from bottom guard by trapping the shoulder with your legs. This is a common finish from a locked triangle as well. Keylocks can also be used to reverse your opponent from underneath dominant position, but that is risky if the opponent is able to counter it.
     
    #20

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"