Michael Jai White claims Kyokushin is the only traditional martial art left not watered down

spacetime said:
How could they when it's barely practiced it in comparison to their rigid kihons, mostly consisting of punching the air?
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Plenty of karate guys hit pads. I did. I know guys like wonderboy,whittaker, and machida did too.
 
spacetime said:
Padwork in Shotokan is virtually unheard of. They are hardcore traditionalists. Exception that confirms the rule
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using pads in karate is pretty common in the united states. maybe in japan they dont use pads.
 
Jimmy Jazz said:
using pads in karate is pretty common in the united states. maybe in japan they dont use pads.
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Karate is generic term. Talking about Shotokan now.. . Any legit Shotokan organization like those affiliated with JKA don't use pads.
 
spacetime said:
Tang Soo Do is Shotokan with proper kicking... it was always an improvement. Koreans know how to kick.

So less crappy.
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Having seen the latest Shotokan Bunkai, then compared with what the ITF is putting out as its so called bunkai, I have a beg to differ.
 
spacetime said:
If I said what Michael jai White said, there would be outcry against the troll. But when Michael does it, oh, he must have a point with all that point fighting experience and pretending to beat MMA guys on screen,
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It's almost as if White is a million times more intelligent and experienced than you.
 
Reyesnuthugr said:
That's all I wanted.

Whether "a lot" of boxers do it or "fewer", makes little difference to me. My reasoning is that brawlers do it and textbook boxers are not as common as in previous eras. Brawling (and squaring up) somewhat is more popular stylistically these days in general, imo. Obviously the sharpest boxers are more noticeable in their beautiful mechanics and tend to rise to the top of their divisions. But really that doesn't matter and I'm not going to defend it.
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I can compromise to, you're absolutely right that many people still do telegraph strikes regardless of the combat sport, but do you think Boxing has become more "brawlish" recently? I'm not a HUGE boxing fan and don't follow it that much, I hear people complain that boxing has gotten boring (which to me, means technical lol), but it could just be the supposed "FANS" who aren't really fans, and they're probably just complaining about Mayweather.
 
Universal Kombat said:
I can compromise to, you're absolutely right that many people still do telegraph strikes regardless of the combat sport, but do you think Boxing has become more "brawlish" recently? I'm not a HUGE boxing fan and don't follow it that much, I hear people complain that boxing has gotten boring (which to me, means technical lol), but it could just be the supposed "FANS" who aren't really fans, and they're probably just complaining about Mayweather.
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Let's just say the punching/movement style has become a little less sharp and the strategy has become noticeably more evasive at the same time (for a large subgroup of boxers/wannabes, not all of them and not usually the high level guys). And the brawling/infighting is not as technical as before either.

That's how both of those statements can both be true.

And just for the record- it hasn't gotten more boring to me. A noticeable trend is that a segment of boxers are trying to follow Floyd's footsteps by copying his strategy without copying his highly refined movement or skills. But it doesn't make it more boring (imo) because those wannabes still end up getting embarrassed and hurt because they can't adequately mimic what it takes to utilize his style correctly or effectively (technical knowledge/ability).
 
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Reyesnuthugr said:
Let's just say the punching/movement style has become a little less sharp and the strategy has become noticeably more evasive at the same time (for a large subgroup of boxers/wannabes, not all of them and not usually the high level guys). And the brawling/infighting is not as technical as before either.

That's how both of those statements can both be true.

And just for the record- it hasn't gotten more boring to me. A noticeable trend is that a seent of boxers are trying to follow Floyd's footsteps by copying his strategy without copying his highly refined movement or skills. But it doesn't make it more boring (imo) because those wannabes still end up getting embarrassed and hurt because they can't adequately mimic what it takes to utilize his style correctly or effectively (technical knowledge/ability).
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I've noticed this to, myself being guilty of it. Do you think modern people are more disliking of being hit on the head, which is why people have taken a more heavily focused style on evasive foot movement? What did you think about Canelo vs GGG? Do you feel Canelo was able to use effective head movement, or was he a wannabe Mayweather? I'm always curious on what knowledgeable people have to say about Boxing. I
 
spacetime said:
Karate is generic term. Talking about Shotokan now.. . Any legit Shotokan organization like those affiliated with JKA don't use pads.
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Here's a Shotokan (JKA affiliate) dojo training with pads:


It's common in JKA and especially in WKF.
They all use pads.
So there.

But you're spacetime, so if I know you well enough you will say that the video I posted is either not really JKA or the exception to the rule so I am still incorrect (despite being a Shotokan guy who also trained with pads).

PS. Shame on me, I am getting trolled again...
 
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Universal Kombat said:
I've noticed this to, myself being guilty of it. Do you think modern people are more disliking of being hit on the head, which is why people have taken a more heavily focused style on evasive foot movement? What did you think about Canelo vs GGG? Do you feel Canelo was able to use effective head movement, or was he a wannabe Mayweather? I'm always curious on what knowledgeable people have to say about Boxing. I
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I think the cultural landscape is changing and the deep respect for that warrior's honor in proving his grit among lower/working classes (where we get most of our boxers from) is changing among some sub-classes. They now respect money/success more than proving themselves as a warrior (which makes some sense I gotta admit). I don't think it has anything to do with fear from getting hit in the head, or else they wouldn't go into boxing, regardless.

At the same time, they have not taken nearly as much interest (none of it, actually) in the study of refinement and cultivation of skills that they would need to accomplish this. They've bought into the Mayweather superhero ego hype, which he generated specifically to target and make money off them (I can't blame him, I mean it's marketing and it worked. He made it look easy).

Canelo is not a wannabe Mayweather in any sense. He loves slugging it out and getting in there with heavy punchers even. He will use some small efficient angles but he doesn't do anything that could be confused for running. Running is when you refuse to engage for extended periods, when you literally backpedal. Canelo takes angles to hit you better/more, not to avoid engaging. Mexicans would not allow a Mexican fighter to do anything like that and ever support him if he ever did anything like that. It's the blinged out mumble-rap skinny-jean crowd that is drawn to this new uber-evasive style, I'm pretty sure, they mostly see it as a fast-track to money and success.

It's a lot of lower level guys trying to mimic this stuff (incorrectly). Also, Broner (also incorrectly). They got sold a comic book dream and are eager to take it literally, no different than the TMA boom of the 80's
 
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Hotora86 said:
Here's a Shotokan (JKA affiliate) dojo training with pads:


It's common in JKA and especially in WKF.
They all use pads.
So there.

But you're spacetime, so if I know you well enough you will say that the video I posted is either not really JKA or the exception to the rule so I am still incorrect (despite being a Shotokan guy who also trained with pads).

PS. Shame on me, I am getting trolled again...
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Shame on me for visiting countless JKA dojos with zero pads. And training the air punching style myself.
 
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Reyesnuthugr said:
I think the cultural landscape is changing and the deep respect for that warrior's honor in proving his grit among lower/working classes (where we get most of our boxers from) is changing among some sub-classes. They now respect money/success more than proving themselves as a warrior (which makes some sense I gotta admit). I don't think it has anything to do with fear from getting hit in the head, or else they wouldn't go into boxing, regardless.

At the same time, they have not taken nearly as much interest (none of it, actually) in the study of refinement and cultivation of skills that they would need to accomplish this. They've bought into the Mayweather superhero ego hype, which he generated specifically to target and make money off them (I can't blame him, I mean it's marketing and it worked. He made it look easy).

Canelo is not a wannabe Mayweather in any sense. He loves slugging it out and getting in there with heavy punchers even. He will use some small efficient angles but he doesn't do anything that could be confused for running. Running is when you refuse to engage for extended periods, when you literally backpedal. Canelo takes angles to hit you better/more, not to avoid engaging. Mexicans would not allow a Mexican fighter to do anything like that and ever support him if he ever did anything like that. It's the blinged out mumble-rap skinny-jean crowd that is drawn to this new uber-evasive style, I'm pretty sure, they mostly see it as a fast-track to money and success.

It's a lot of lower level guys trying to mimic this stuff (incorrectly). Also, Broner (also incorrectly). They got sold a comic book dream and are eager to take it literally, no different than the TMA boom of the 80's
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"Mumble rap" God I hate that trash.
Absolutely agreed on all the rest.
Are the lower level guys being gifted decisions by incompetent judges? Or are they nothing to worry about?
 
Bekim said:
You actually have no real evidence that they only used their fists in the earlier stuff, it's even hotly debated whether the Greeks only used their fists, so technically it's not boxing is it.............
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There is evidence that they used their hands to fight - we don't know if they wore gloves or not - or something else on their fists and what the rules specifically were.

There are Sumerian & Ancient Egyptian artefacts depicting this so the evidence exists.

Whether or not that's technically boxing is irrelevant - as like you said even the Greeks/Egyptians are debatable. I was only responding to the claim that the ancient Egyptians & Greeks spread boxing to Asia - which is not true since there are artefacts there that are older than ancient Greek artefacts depicting some form of unarmed hand combat.
 
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