Michael Gerson on rightwing Evangelicalism

[Soul Crusher]

I don't have faith. My mind does not need to be made up. But if you are going to talk, here in the real world, about cosmic entities, you should probably try to bring truth, or admit you suffer from some deficiency in capability.

Hey, there's no need to go that route. It's your choice not to see it.

 

[Soul Crusher]

@TheComebackKid

I think it's going to be this way no matter what.

Matthew 25:31-46

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Spoiler

 

[hillelslovak87]

Hey, there's no need to go that route. It's your choice not to see it.

It would be appreciated if you dropped the arrogant pretense of being one oft he privileged few, vouched access to a power the rest of us can't claim. It's annoying as shit.

 

[Neph]

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

23 Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!” 24 When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up forty-two lads of their number. 25 And he went from there to Mount Carmel, and from there he returned to Samaria.

 

[Soul Crusher]

It would be appreciated if you dropped the arrogant pretense of being one oft he privileged few, vouched access to a power the rest of us can't claim. It's annoying as shit.

The Lord is there for everyone who seeks him. He'll hook you up with understanding.

Deuteronomy 4:29

29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

Proverbs 14:6

6 A scorner seeketh wisdom, and findeth it not: but knowledge is easy unto him that understandeth.

Job 32:8

8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Ha! Thread is back and its getting preachy!

 

[Throttlehead]

The Lord is there for everyone who seeks him. He'll hook you up with understanding.

Deuteronomy 4:29

29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

Proverbs 14:6

6 A scorner seeketh wisdom, and findeth it not: but knowledge is easy unto him that understandeth.

Job 32:8

8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

There are better places to play hide and seek than this forum.

 

[Neph]

The Lord is there for everyone who seeks him. He'll hook you up with understanding.

Deuteronomy 4:29

29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

Proverbs 14:6

6 A scorner seeketh wisdom, and findeth it not: but knowledge is easy unto him that understandeth.

Job 32:8

8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

"This is what the Lord Almighty says ... 'Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' "

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)

“Do not allow a sorceress to live.” (Exodus 22:18)

"Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother." (Mark 12:19)

 

[Soul Crusher]

There are better places to play hide and seek than this forum.

This is a good a place as any.

 

[Soul Crusher]

"This is what the Lord Almighty says ... 'Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' "

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)

“Do not allow a sorceress to live.” (Exodus 22:18)

"Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother." (Mark 12:19)

1 Timothy 2

8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Mark 12
1 And he began to speak unto them by parables.
18 Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying,
19 Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
20 Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed.
21 And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise.
22 And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also.
23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

 

[hillelslovak87]

The Lord is there for everyone who seeks him. He'll hook you up with understanding.

Deuteronomy 4:29

29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

Proverbs 14:6

6 A scorner seeketh wisdom, and findeth it not: but knowledge is easy unto him that understandeth.

Job 32:8

8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

One could rattle off passages to the Quran if one wanted, and it still would not do a lick of difference in proving the morality or truth of the book.

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple." spoken like a true cult leader.

 

[Soul Crusher]

One could rattle off passages to the Quran if one wanted, and it still would not do a lick of difference in proving the morality or truth of the book.

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple." spoken like a true cult leader.

It's your choice if you don't want to seek him out.

 

[hillelslovak87]

It's your choice if you don't want to seek him out.

And you could find the Paradise Gardens if your heart was pure, infidel.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

The Mishna and Bible are not evidence...........

They aren't evidence that the people were being cheated? Then we're would one find such evidence?

I know will take hillelslovak word for it. Lol

 

[PainIsLIfe]

And yet, poverty was not the only metric they utilized. Go figure. Good job completely glossing over the fact that where there are poor gullible people, the faithful will always hold sway. Great advertisement for the faith impulse.

You're right the used incarceration rates, life expectancy, and income equality. Way to gloss yourself.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.

If his master gives him a wife, and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall belong to her master, and he shall go out alone.

- God


Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; 6not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. 7With good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men, 8knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free.

All who are under the yoke as slaves are to regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against. 2Those who have believers as their masters must not be disrespectful to them because they are brethren, but must serve them all the more, because those who partake of the benefit are believers and beloved. Teach and preach these principles.

- Jesus Fuckin' Christ

And your point?
And whoever stealeth a man and sells him shall suey be put to death.

For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother.

Do to others what you want them to do to you. This is the meaning of the law of Moses and the teaching of the prophets.

What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn.

 

[ShadBo]

I'm suggesting that Christianity is anti-slavery and more importantly to this thread that Evangelicalism is anti-slavery as opposed to being founded on slavery.

This is an outright lie.

Slavery is explicitly sanctioned in the Bible.

You have to ignore large sections of Exodus, Deuteronomy, and Leviticus to say otherwise.

Some Christians may now be opposed to slavery, but there's nothing in scripture to support their position.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

This is an outright lie.

Slavery is explicitly sanctioned in the Bible.

You have to ignore large sections of Exodus, Deuteronomy, and Leviticus to say otherwise.

Some Christians may now be opposed to slavery, but there's nothing in scripture to support their position.

Slavery is endorsed in the OT - ie Judaism. Not sure how you're supposed to read the golden rule and assume slavery is ok. Especially confounded that we're supposed to be brothers now and would enslave our brother for life. Even to follow OT we would have to set our brother free after 6 yrs.

Further more this thread claims that evangelicalism was founded with slavery in mind (implying us slavety) despite the fact that evangelicalism was a reform movement that began in the late 1600s and most of the famous aboloshonist were in fact evangelicals.

 

[ShadBo]

Slavery is endorsed in the OT - ie Judaism. Not sure how you're supposed to read the golden rule and assume slavery is ok. Especially confounded that we're supposed to be brothers now and would enslave our brother for life. Even to follow OT we would have to set our brother free after 6 yrs.

I'm not sure why there's such a huge contradiction in the book either. It's also not my problem since I don't subscribe to it.

Further more, the specific overrides the general. The vague passages that talk about treating people well do not in any way invalidate the specific instructions on how one is to conduct their slavery.

The rule to let your slave go after 6 years is for your hebrew slaves. There is no such provision for non jewish slaves. Plus, there are all sorts of ways to get around the 6 year limit so that you can enslave the hebrews too, for life. Making them, along with your non hebrew slaves, your property which can be handed down to your children.

Further more this thread claims that evangelicalism was founded with slavery in mind (implying us slavety) despite the fact that evangelicalism was a reform movement that began in the late 1600s and most of the famous aboloshonist were in fact evangelicals.

No where in the bible, no where, does it explicitly state that slavery is wrong. Not in the OT, not in the NT, no where. Any Christian that is anti-slavery is so for reasons that cannot be supported by scripture.

 

[Neph]

Slavery is endorsed in the OT - ie Judaism. Not sure how you're supposed to read the golden rule and assume slavery is ok. Especially confounded that we're supposed to be brothers now and would enslave our brother for life. Even to follow OT we would have to set our brother free after 6 yrs.

Further more this thread claims that evangelicalism was founded with slavery in mind (implying us slavety) despite the fact that evangelicalism was a reform movement that began in the late 1600s and most of the famous aboloshonist were in fact evangelicals.

OT stands.

The Fulfillment of the Law

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.ab

In addition the 10 commandments stand (also OT), the creation myths (mostly) stand (also OT), and original sin stands (also OT). Without original sin Jesus' story doesn't make sense.

So not only does the NT explicitly state that the OT rules have not been abolished it also provides instructions for slaves such as:

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.