Marvelous was better than GGG in every aspect

[KillerIsBack V2]

Doesn't matter. He made the official weight at the official weigh in. It was an advantage because he's good at cutting weight, nothing more.

Thank you for admitting you're wrong, rare of you. Doesn't matter because of what. You just agreed with what I have been saying all along, which is the part in bold and underlined. No way around it.

 

[Confucamus]

Is that why he lost to the Mongoose and almost lost to a LW?

If Golovkin lost to a fighter like Willie Monroe in today's era, he'd be banished back to Kazakhstan.

Or he could come back and avenge that defeat via knockout and go on to brutalize the MW division all the way to the top like Hagler did.

 

[Streeter]

Folks declaring Hagler the MW GOAT ............................... Didn't RJJ fight at MW most of his career?? RJJ > Hagler by a decent distance. RJJ is the greatest all around fighter I have ever actually watched live and I am 43. Hagler was a great but RJJ would make him look silly.

 

[wilddeuces]

Some of you are slow today... except for @Rico
Hagler is the arguable MW GOAT.

Regardless of how tyson-esque that ko was, stevens is not his best performance. Lem dropping N'Dam so many times and walking through him was imo, cause that guy is supposed to be really polished boxing skills. That was alot more impressive, thus because GGG winning the Lem fight purely by jabbing for 8 rounds to prove a point shouldn't have made you that much surprised his out-boxing skills.

Personally, I think if Danny didn't take advantage of the weight cutting rules, GGG would have TKOed him.

Who is arguing Hagler's status among the top of the MW's? If you think I was, then perhaps you are the slow one.

Yes, the N'Dam win was one of his better ones. No dispute there. It sounds like you are agreeing with me about GGG's jab.

 

[JayE]

Folks declaring Hagler the MW GOAT ............................... Didn't RJJ fight at MW most of his career?? RJJ > Hagler by a decent distance. RJJ is the greatest all around fighter I have ever actually watched live and I am 43. Hagler was a great but RJJ would make him look silly.

No. There is an argument for Hagler being the MW GOAT, but it's certainly not clear cut.

 

[nac386]

Folks declaring Hagler the MW GOAT ............................... Didn't RJJ fight at MW most of his career?? RJJ > Hagler by a decent distance. RJJ is the greatest all around fighter I have ever actually watched live and I am 43. Hagler was a great but RJJ would make him look silly.

Usually historical ratings like that are based on accomplishment in that division. So whether RJJ would beat Hagler in a fight might not really be the deciding factor, their resumes at the weight would.

 

[Seano]

Thank you for admitting you're wrong, rare of you. Doesn't matter because of what. You just agreed with what I have been saying all along, which is the part in bold and underlined. No way around it.

Well, yeah, fighters have different physical advantages. My problem is that you imply that something wrong happened. Tall, fast, good at cutting weight- all advantages against the right opponents.

 

[Seano]

No. There is an argument for Hagler being the MW GOAT, but it's certainly not clear cut.

Better than Monzon. Who else?

 

[JayE]

Better than Monzon. Who else?

Robinson and Greb. Hopkins' MW run just based on longevity could be in the conversation.

 

[Seano]

Robinson and Greb. Hopkins' MW run just based on longevity could be in the conversation.

I would have to say Hagler's best wins trump Hopkins' best.

Robinson was lukewarm too. All of his highest profile losses were at that weight.

As for Greb, I don't know, I think somewhere you have to draw the line when comparing eras. As much as people like to insist otherwise, I can't imagine fighters from that era competing with today's athletes.

 

[4daLuLZ]

Folks declaring Hagler the MW GOAT ............................... Didn't RJJ fight at MW most of his career?? RJJ > Hagler by a decent distance. RJJ is the greatest all around fighter I have ever actually watched live and I am 43. Hagler was a great but RJJ would make him look silly.

This.
Another thing to remember, an old half blind retiree in SRL was able to outbox and beat Hagler. RJJ could do all that SRL could do in his prime and even better. All while being bigger, stronger and harder hitting.

RJJ would beat Hagler by making him look stupid for 12 rounds.
Hagler still ranks over him though because of resume / achievements.

 

[JayE]

This.
Another thing to remember, an old half blind retiree in SRL was able to outbox and beat Hagler. RJJ could do all that SRL could do in his prime and even better. All while being bigger, stronger and harder hitting.

RJJ would beat Hagler by making him look stupid for 12 rounds.
Hagler still ranks over him though because of resume / achievements.

I'm not sure about that. Hagler was clearly better on the front foot than a green Hopkins and RJJ at his MW peak (granted, he didn't peak at MW) didn't make a green Hopkins look ridiculous (arm injury or not). I'd probably favour RJJ, but I doubt it would be easy.

 

[JayE]

I would have to say Hagler's best wins trump Hopkins' best.

Robinson was lukewarm too. All of his highest profile losses were at that weight.

As for Greb, I don't know, I think somewhere you have to draw the line when comparing eras. As much as people like to insist otherwise, I can't imagine fighters from that era competing with today's athletes.

Yeah, but Hopkins had a bit more longevity at the weight. I'd still probably favour Monzon and Hagler's resumes over Hopkins. It does get a little complicated to rate Greb especially just as a MW (he'd certainly rate higher p4p than Hagler, Monzon, or Hopkins), although, I do think fighters from his era could still compete fine in this era. I think someone like Tunney would still be elite based on film, and we know that Greb despite giving up a fair bit of size was plenty competitive with him.

 

[Confucamus]

This.
Another thing to remember, an old half blind retiree in SRL was able to outbox and beat Hagler. RJJ could do all that SRL could do in his prime and even better. All while being bigger, stronger and harder hitting.

RJJ would beat Hagler by making him look stupid for 12 rounds.
Hagler still ranks over him though because of resume / achievements.

Nobody in the history of the MW division makes Marvin Hagler look "stupid." Even RJJ.

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

Who is arguing Hagler's status among the top of the MW's? If you think I was, then perhaps you are the slow one.

Yes, the N'Dam win was one of his better ones. No dispute there. It sounds like you are agreeing with me about GGG's jab.

God, wild... u really are slow. Just forget it.

 

[4daLuLZ]

Nobody in the history of the MW division makes Marvin Hagler look "stupid." Even RJJ.

You'd be saying the same time about James Toney, if RJJ hadn't made him look stupid.

 

[4daLuLZ]

I'm not sure about that. Hagler was clearly better on the front foot than a green Hopkins and RJJ at his MW peak (granted, he didn't peak at MW) didn't make a green Hopkins look ridiculous (arm injury or not). I'd probably favour RJJ, but I doubt it would be easy.

Hopkins style isn't the same as Hagler.

 

[Hagler]

Golovkin punches hard, but he also has a better chin than Hearns. I don't think prime Marvin would go after him. He wouldn't mind boxing off the back foot, go for counters and puzzle Golovkin switching stances and moves, à la Jacobs, only better and tougher, the same way he fought Briscoe. I'd see Hagler pull a decision after slowing down Golovkin quicker than GGG would slow him down.

Of course GGG's accurate, heavy jab would be a factor, plus he would land a few rights as Hagler wasn't a defensive wizard. Hagler was a bleeder and could have an issue here.

If Marvin was to accept the firefight, wether if he was down on the cards or fearing a TKO, you hardly know what could happen. Both would land wicked shots, huge power and respectable chin vs huge chin and repectable power, the hell if we know how this would end.

 

[PivotPunch]

Golovkin hans't done anything so far to be put on the same level as Hagler. Golovkin's best win is Jacobs and his best undisputed win is Lemieux. Of cours ehe had bad luck and is now getting a bit old but you can't rank him on "if"s .

Hagler has fought and beat ATG fighters and has proven a lot more in tougher pro fights than Golovkin had.

Maybe Golovkin would have won but I relaly doubt it. Hagler wasn't a brawler or even a pressure fighter mostly he was a boxer puncher who liked to counter he started to brawl late in his career when his opponents fit that style and when he was past his best.

Most likely he would outcounter Golovkin hard and possibly stop him late. If you look at what Jacobs and especially Brook did to Golovkin how can you favour him?

What would Golovkin do? Knock Hagler out? Right..... Outpoint him I don't think many think he would be able to do that even with his good jab

 

[JayE]

Hopkins style isn't the same as Hagler.

The point is that essentially every MW would be forced to come forward against Roy Jones, just as Hopkins was. Hagler was better at that than Hopkins and Hopkins still had limited success against Jones even before his prime (as I said before, it was also before Jones' prime, but it was his MW peak and this is a MW comparison).