Marines to send Wookies to infantry training on west coast. Update: Most fail initial physical

[Rozko]

I said 90% off the top of my head but its a large proportion. And even if they pass the same standards that the males due they'll have a higher injury rate after the fact so there's still a lower return on investment.

I just don't have any issues keeping women out of combat roles when the data we do have tells us they're reliably less effective at the job. Asking young men to risk their lives for a weak link may advance equality but I think its unfair to those men.

This.
What they are doing is making it harder for the following to happen, the policy needs to go away.

To locate close with and destroy the enemy through fire and maneuver and repel the enemy's assualt through fire and close combat.

 

[n.diazismylife1999]

The "as long as the standards remain the same" crap feels like a warm and fuzzy sentiment, but here's the thing:

The standards won't remain the same, no matter what the politicians say. There will be immense pressure to get the females in, and the standards WILL change. They won't say they're lowering them, they'll "re-evaluate" them. And that's disregarding the fact that even without different standards (which already exist, btw, look up how female Ranger candidates were treated for an example), commanders at all levels will be telling their subordinates to only fail the women they absolutely have to fail, because their political careers are at stake.

 

[Lord Coke]

The "as long as the standards remain the same" crap feels like a warm and fuzzy sentiment, but here's the thing:

The standards won't remain the same, no matter what the politicians say. There will be immense pressure to get the females in, and the standards WILL change. They won't say they're lowering them, they'll "re-evaluate" them. And that's disregarding the fact that even without different standards (which already exist, btw, look up how female Ranger candidates were treated for an example), commanders at all levels will be telling their subordinates to only fail the women they absolutely have to fail, because their political careers are at stake.

Just the cost of keeping the standards the same will make people want to change them.
Infantry school is going to need more medical support, admin and other support just to function now that SOI has Special Forces level drop out rates. That costs money. Heck the cost of freighting the girls that wash out to other schools will be felt Marine Corps wide. That will be the case even once they are in the fleet. Women are going to need all sort of facilities that men go without.

 

[n.diazismylife1999]

Just the cost of keeping the standards the same will make people want to change them.
Infantry school is going to need more medical support, admin and other support just to function now that SOI has Special Forces level drop out rates. That costs money. Heck the cost of freighting the girls that wash out to other schools will be felt Marine Corps wide. That will be the case even once they are in the fleet. Women are going to need all sort of facilities that men go without.

The entire thing is just retarded.

Even if you set aside the performance issues and the esprit de corps issues and the "what do women actually add to Infantry" issue...

You're left with a logistics nightmare of having to accommodate a very small number of women, who need their own special considerations, all of this costing money, and then time, and just generally being a fucking headache....

What's the god damn point? The juice is clearly not worth the squeeze, EVEN IF we grant that women might be as good as men in combat roles, which is a pretty fucking big "if."

 

[GoldenRedKicks]

Kick rocks, pussy.

I will literally smack the fuck out you.

 

[n.diazismylife1999]

All you have to do is watch something like America Ninja Warrior

Or train full combat sports for any amount of time. I've never met a woman that wasn't a rest round, and I've come across some that are elite in their own divisions. They're physically just very obviously not on par with men and it's incredible anyone even has to state that out loud.

 

[BEER]

I DO have a problem with women trying to become something that they're clearly not capable of simply because of political correctness and to continue the myth that men and women are equal. I don't think anyone can make any valid argument AT ALL as to how it would be beneficial in any significant way to have women serving as front line troops. There is literally NOTHING that a female soldier can do that your average male soldier couldn't probably do 10x better.

All you have to do is watch something like America Ninja Warrior and see how much of a struggle it is for women to get through an obstacle course because of their lack of physical strength compared to men. Heck even the top female competitors on that show rarely finish an entire course and certainly not anywhere near as fast as men do.

The bottom line is that women should be placed in positions that fit their physical and mental skill sets and being a front line soldier isn't one of them. If they want to be on the front lines then why not do so as combat pilots as some have already shown they can handle that. Simply put can we please just stop the madness of trying to pretend that women and men are equal and that women are fit for any job that men do when in reality that's far from the truth.

Your entire rant is null and void when my premise was that we don't lower standards.

Which means the women included would be held to the same standards as the men.

 

[usmctanker242]

Your entire rant is null and void when my premise was that we don't lower standards.

Which means the women included would be held to the same standards as the men.

Unfortunately you don't seem to understand how things actually work ; standards WILL changes as females fail at higher and higher rates. These standards WILL change until there are enough females passing to meet a quota. As he already suggested they will call this "evaluating standards" as they are already doing with the heavy packs and long humps (marches) at IOC (Infantry Officers Course). They will keep "evaluating" these standards until there are enough females passing and by that time the standards will be so low that most 12 year old boys could pass them.

Women CAN NOT be held to the same standards of men when it comes to something physical because human physiology has already determined them to be unequal in this arena. It's a good thing we got Trump in the Whitehouse and he surrounded himself with some amazing Generals so that the feminist / liberal bullshit agenda is going to get slapped down. The last place we should EVER be talking about diversity and equality is in the military, and especially so in Infantry and Combat Arm's jobs.

 

[peytonlucy]

I have no problem with this if they are able to maintain the same physical fitness standards as their male counterparts.

Exactly, and if a paraplegic can meet the standards they are welcome too. The training course will need to be designed to meet the special challenges presented by a wheelchair. A slight redesign may be required for the tank or armored vehicle.

 

[BEER]

Unfortunately you don't seem to understand how things actually work ; standards WILL changes as females fail at higher and higher rates. These standards WILL change until there are enough females passing to meet a quota. As he already suggested they will call this "evaluating standards" as they are already doing with the heavy packs and long humps (marches) at IOC (Infantry Officers Course). They will keep "evaluating" these standards until there are enough females passing and by that time the standards will be so low that most 12 year old boys could pass them.

Women CAN NOT be held to the same standards of men when it comes to something physical because human physiology has already determined them to be unequal in this arena. It's a good thing we got Trump in the Whitehouse and he surrounded himself with some amazing Generals so that the feminist / liberal bullshit agenda is going to get slapped down. The last place we should EVER be talking about diversity and equality is in the military, and especially so in Infantry and Combat Arm's jobs.

Again, you're arguing me with a premise that I didn't and don't support.

 

[Toothless King]

Do we know that 90% of them will fail?

Do we recruit them individually or in perfect conjunction with men?

I don't have all the answers. I just have no issues, in principal, with allowing women to train next to men, as long as the standards aren't reduced to fabricate success rates.

I can speak from personal experience that female infantry in the Army are still exempt from the male's APFT standard.

ask me how I know that.

 

[BEER]

I can speak from personal experience that female infantry in the Army are still exempt from the male's APFT standard.

ask me how I know that.

If this is true (and feel free to explain it), I do not support that measure at all. Just like I don't support that FDNY lowered their standards to recruit more women. If my house is burning down, I want someone at the highest level of standards to come into my burning home to save me or my family. Not a woman who was only capable of lowered standards.

 

[peytonlucy]

With appropriate accommodations the blind, with service dogs, could serve in ground combat units. One advantage of the blind is that they would be less likely to racial profile the enemy and would not leer at women in occupied areas, unless they are blind lesbians and that could be allowed with the proper consent and waiver forms.

 

[Toothless King]

If this is true (and feel free to explain it), I do not support that measure at all. Just like I don't support that FDNY lowered their standards to recruit more women. If my house is burning down, I want someone at the highest level of standards to come into my burning home to save me or my family. Not a woman who was only capable of lowered standards.

my unit has the first female infantry soldier in the state of California. per army's directive, she is still being graded under female apft standard.

same thing with 18 female soldiers graduated from infantry OSUT at ft benning in march

 

[peytonlucy]

Experience is a great asset. Older marines are granted lower physical standards. Perhaps, we could empty nursing homes and allow them to serve in combat units because diversity is our greatest strength and the elderly have more life experience.

 

[MarcoW]

All of the women will fail, and then loads of them will claim rape.

Seems like a legit strategy to keep a strong military to protect the nation.

I'd rather rapist soldiers get kicked out of the military, so yes it will.

 

[Lord Coke]

Experience is a great asset. Older marines are granted lower physical standards. Perhaps, we could empty nursing homes and allow them to serve in combat units because diversity is our greatest strength and the elderly have more life experience.

That is partially true but older Male marines still need to meet the bare minimum standards for men which is three pullups 28 minute 3 mile run and 75 situps in a minute.

Women don't need to meet that bare minumum standard and only have to hang on the bar.

 

[freaky]

great...they will just lower standards so even females can pass. The future of our military...

 

[peytonlucy]

That is partially true but older Male marines still need to meet the bare minimum standards for men which is three pullups 28 minute 3 mile run and 75 situps in a minute.

Women don't need to meet that bare minumum standard and only have to hang on the bar.

I think the word "hang" implies lynching, and that is racist. Are you a RACIST?

 

[Toothless King]

Experience is a great asset. Older marines are granted lower physical standards. Perhaps, we could empty nursing homes and allow them to serve in combat units because diversity is our greatest strength and the elderly have more life experience.

18 year old female apft standard equals to a 50 year old male.

by the time you are 50 year old in the military, you are either long gone retired or is in the super upper senior leadership in the battalion/brigade level, not a junior enlisted or junior officer grunt doing all the physical work