Low Recruit Discipline Prompts Army to Redesign Basic Training

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Lord Coke, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. Lord Coke

    Lord Coke Brown Belt

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    Friends something is going to give soon. 1/3 of high school students are not qualified to even try to enlist mostly due to weight problems. Most that can do not want to join. The few that do are less disciplined than their fathers were. The question is can we undo the damage that has been done to our society before its to late.


    https://www.military.com/daily-news...ers-prompts-army-redesign-basic-training.html

     
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  2. VivaRevolution

    VivaRevolution Whoopin' Belt Yellow Card

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    IDK, I think the problem probably lies in the fact that they can't water deprive you, sleep deprivation is limited to field exercises, they can't even curse at you.

    One of the only tools drill seargents had when I went through in 99, was embarassment. That and punishing the whole platoon for a mistake, so that the other soldiers do the policing.

    I don't think it is entitlement. I think it is a lack of fear.

    I didn't show up on time, squared away, because I wasn't entitled, I did it because I feared the consequences.
     
  3. Lord Coke

    Lord Coke Brown Belt

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    I don't think so. I think it is societal. This generation is just not as strong as ours were. When I went through in 2001 (Marines) you could tell which recruits had been coddled at home. Now that 10% is most of the new recruits. To many electronics and entitlement in school makes these kids less capable.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  4. Badger67

    Badger67 Taxidea taxus

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    I wouldnt join the army for 20 to 30k a year either.
     
  5. sub_thug

    sub_thug Silver Belt

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    I think this is a lot of it. The idea of punishing the group for the individual in order to get them working as a team is a valuable one. Moreover, they really need to have some intense shared suffering. Shared suffering is what bonds people together, which is why a lose in the family can bring people together, why war bonds warriors together, etc. A big part of the military indoctrination experience is helping recruits lose that sense of self and adopt a "group first" mentality, and shared suffering is the mechanism for building that. That ultimately creates unit cohesion, high levels of esprit de corps, and teamwork.

    We need to understand that the process is painful, and it is purposefully so. It should be that way, and we need to respect the process. The harder it is, the more that those recruits will rely on one another to complete their missions.
     
  6. Higus

    Higus Silver Belt

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    God help us, the millennials are starting to turn into crotchety old farts.
     
  7. VivaRevolution

    VivaRevolution Whoopin' Belt Yellow Card

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    I don't buy the whole entitled thing.

    As a matter of fact, I see more truly driven young people, then I remember in my generation,because these kids are scared for their future, and they should be. We haven't been the best stewards of what was built before us.

    Edit: I take that back, if we are talking about the type of people who join the military because they have no other choice, I bet you are right. I stand by my point that the milenials best and brightest are actually more impressive though.
     
  8. Teppodama

    Teppodama Black Belt

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    If they're having problems with the grenade training I think they should look into outsourcing consultants from Sweden, I understand even segments of their civilian population are pretty well versed in the art of the grenade...;)
     
  9. Lord Coke

    Lord Coke Brown Belt

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    I don't know about entitled but there can be no argument that there is a massive issue with the lack of physicality in modern youth. We need to have a massive overhaul of our PE programs k-12. Less AP classes and more running. Plus we need more contact sports which require us as a society to say co-ed contact sports are a bad idea. Boys should be with boys so they can read their max performace on the field.
     
  10. JosephDredd

    JosephDredd Gold Belt

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    Kids today haven't been raised to be a mindless cog in the machine. Unlike their parents, they've been raised to say no to pain, to abuse, to things they don't want. Their generation is growing up watching soldiers take their own lives in endless, needless wartime; their generation is growing up watching their parents receive ve no rewards for making sacrifices for the companies which pay them. Unlike their parents, they do not believe loyalty will be rewarded. They're disposable fodder in a world that offers the less economic opportunity than American generations before them and are quickly being replaced by machines.

    They've learned that they need to look after themselves because there is no longer a social contract that says that they'll receive the means to take care of themselves in exchange for contributing to society or sacrificing themselves for their country.

    They're already changing the world, just by not accepting what their parents accepted. But they're also confused as fuck with no path to follow, so who knows if the change is for good or for ill.
     
  11. HereticBD

    HereticBD Steel Belt

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    I'm not gonna talk shit. You either have what it takes, or you don't.
     
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  12. Lord Coke

    Lord Coke Brown Belt

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    Then we are going to have to bring back the draft. Can you imagine the outcry if we did that.
     
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  13. King of Fists

    King of Fists Mobile Platinum Member

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    I think it's more the quality of recruits. If they tightened up the enlistement and physical standards, reduced head count, and made it more prestigious, the quality of recruits would go up. It's not like there's no motivated, squared away young people, it's just that those guys have way better options than the military.

    There's always been a large segment of people who join the military because they can't find anything better. So now the problem is that those "weakest links" are in general, weaker than before. Which ultimately weakens the whole thing. But the real problem is that for way too long the military has served as a glorified government handout for people who aren't qualified to do much of anything.
     
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  14. snakedafunky

    snakedafunky Red Belt

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    I guess it also has to do with the American propaganda system slowly failing. And some able people don't consider joining anymore.
    I mean the US Army is primarily a tool for the Top 5% of the US to stay unusually rich. Build on the blood of the poor.
    Worked ok during the Cold War and they were fortunate enough to get attacked on 9/11 which carried them another decade.

    But why should some lower class guy get his leg blown off somewhere on a different continent fighting against even more impoverished people?
    Just so that millionaires can become multimillionaires? But he can't even get an education or healtinsurance.
    They are not stupid they can see that all other western countries can have that without fighting aggressive oil wars.
    That has nothing to do with defending America. And it gets harder and harder to trick the people into believing that.
     
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  15. RerouteToRemain

    RerouteToRemain Silver Belt

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    "We are finding that there are a large number of trainees that come in that quite frankly just physically don't have the capacity to throw a hand grenade 20 to 25 to 30 meters."

    Fucking pathetic.
     
  16. Lord Coke

    Lord Coke Brown Belt

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    We could do that but we would need to draw back our military engagements. I would support pulling out of Japan and Germany but that is what it would take. We need a lot of troops using our current model
     
  17. curryjunkie

    curryjunkie mixed marital arts...

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    half the SAS are full of guys who dropped out of school or had discipline problems/ came from broken homes, i agree the modern generation are less active as kids, and far more entitled.
    joseph dredd got it right, todays youth are far more informed, and as a result, dont want to be a cog in the military machine, they got better things to do.
     
  18. HockeyBjj

    HockeyBjj Putting on the foil

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    Why in the hell did these things lose focus, especially the bolded, anyways?
     
  19. VivaRevolution

    VivaRevolution Whoopin' Belt Yellow Card

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    Preaching to choir here. We are getting to the point where hard manual labor will need to be considered skilled labor, because only 1/3 of the population can actually do it.
     
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  20. Beechwood

    Beechwood Green Belt

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    I've wondered what would happen if America brought back 2 years of required military service for all 18 to 20 year olds. Some European countries still do this I believe. It had me thinking it would be a couple years of discipline and exercise. Once discharged everyone would be eligible for universal medical care under the VA. Doubt many would want that though, youth and the military.
     

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