Life after Death: No Heaven, just infinite blackness

[MikeMcMann]

...

One more time, in the simplest manner in which I can put it - eternal nothingness, being the fate of all living things, means that ultimately whatever you do, it doesn't matter at all....

well I will stick to this point since it is really all that matters in your post and say again that you CANNOT speak for others on that but you can speak for yourself.

For me, if there is nothing after then this life matters more and what I do in this life matters more to me.

This is constant problem on sherdog where people assume and conflate THEIR opinion with that of others because they think if what I said makes sense to me it must apply to all.

I know lots of atheists who believe in no after life and yet live good and admirable lives.

 

[BearGrounds]

well I will stick to this point since it is really all that matters in your post and say again that you CANNOT speak for others on that but you can speak for yourself.

For me, if there is nothing after then this life matters more and what I do in this life matters more to me.

This is constant problem on sherdog where people assume and conflate THEIR opinion with that of others because they think if what I said makes sense to me it must apply to all.

I know lots of atheists who believe in no after life and yet live good and admirable lives.

"Ultimately" is the key word. Tell me, how much is it going to matter to you once you die?

 

[MikeMcMann]

I've heard this type of argument a lot throughout my life, usually from religious folks. If you don't believe in the after life and God, why bother being "good"


My problem with this logic, is it assumes morality only exists when their is fear of punishment. I don't believe in that. Even though I've fully embraced the concept of causality and I don't think free will exists, I think it makes your moral convictions stronger if you stick with them without any expectation of punishment or reward.


If all your morals are based on a fear of punishment, then you end up a person with little character imo.

That is absolutely true.

And it is also absolutely true that no one can make that statement unless that is true for them because, by definition if they believe they can be a good person without a good or after life or some form of continuity then so to can others and therefore that statement has no meaning.

So whenever someone makes that statement they are projecting and there is no way around that. They are saying "i could not be a good person without that" and that leads them to want to believe that is true of everyone and not just them so they therefore do not see themselves as a person of little or bad character.

 

[MikeMcMann]

"Ultimately" is the key word. Tell me, how much is it going to matter to you once you die?

nothing matters to me after I die just as nothing mattered to me before I was born.

But for the duration of my life everything I do matters to me as that is all I believe I will ever impart and/or be judged upon.

 

[BearGrounds]

nothing matters to me after I die just as nothing mattered to me before I was born.

But for the duration of my life everything I do matters to me as that is all I believe I will ever impart and/or be judged upon.

Well, then there you have it. No afterlife means that ultimately, nothing you do will matter one bit at all. So live however the fuck you please. My point stands.

 

[funcrusher2007]

Do you believe in Life after Death?

Most of my life, I've been believing that after we die, our consciousness remain and that our "spirit" lives on.
Whether there's heaven or hell, our consciousness is still here in this world, and we just know the thought that we are in the after-life.

Until yesterday, I was able to talk to my friend who experienced death for a couple of minutes, after being unconscious for several months due to this sickness that I forgot its name. His brain shut down, his pulse, heart beat, etc. just stopped and was technically dead. But for some unknown reason, he was resurrected and came back to life until he recovered in the hospital.

So I asked him, "where were you during those times?"
He answered, "in the hospital."

I cleared, "No, where were your consciousness? Your spirit? Were you able to see yourself in the hospital bed? Did you see your family crying beside your body? Did you see a bright light, or a paradise? Heaven?

And he just answered, "None."
"It was all black. It's like a dreamless sleep. I just woke up and felt like I had a very long deep sleep. I didn't feel anything. I did not even know why I was lying on the hospital bed."

All my life, I believed that there is life after death. But what my friend said changed everything.
It scared me a bit knowing the fact that, when you die, your existence just disappears forever.
Do you believe in life after death?

My brother was electrocuted on a job welding, I did cpr ..he didn’t have a pulse or heartbeat and breathing for five minutes.....

He described the same exact thing...just black,like asleep but no conscious of being asleep.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Well, then there you have it. No afterlife means that ultimately, nothing you do will matter one bit at all. So live however the fuck you please. My point stands.

No it does not.

Again you are speaking for yourself and your lack of character. the things you are saying are mutually exclusive.

It is possible for others (not you) to accept there will be nothing after and yet this life and time means a lot as does how we live it. You don't get to wave your hand based on your view and tell us it does not.

I never needed anything to matter in the decades or millenia before i was born to live a good life up to today. I don't need to believe there will be any tomorrow to be a good person today.

It is entirely possible that for me (not you) that because there is nothing after this life therefore is MORE important and you don't get to wave your hand and speak for me and say that is not true. You can only speak for yourself.

 

[BearGrounds]

No it does not.

Again you are speaking for yourself and your lack of character. the things you are saying are mutually exclusive.

It is possible for others (not you) to accept there will be nothing after and yet this life and time means a lot as does how we live it. You don't get to wave your hand based on your view and tell us it does not.

I never needed anything to matter in the decades or millenia before i was born to live a good life up to today. I don't need to believe there will be any tomorrow to be a good person today.

It is entirely possible that for me (not you) that because there is nothing after this life therefore is MORE important and you don't get to wave your hand and speak for me and say that is not true. You can only speak for yourself.

SMH. You just admitted nothing will matter to you after you die. What you do, ultimately will not matter - same for everyone else. It's eternal nothingness for everybody!

Now you're trying to disparage my character (despite the fact that I've already told you that I have no desire to do the bad things we've discussed as examples for arguments sake) because you don't like the implications that I forced you to acknowledge about your own worldview. Lol.

 

[tonysmasseuse]

Well, then there you have it. No afterlife means that ultimately, nothing you do will matter one bit at all. So live however the fuck you please. My point stands.

We don't live in isolation though, most of us are aware that we leave an imprint on earth - however small and insignificant it may seem - for future generation, the loved ones we leave behind, the state of the world that we leave to our children. Even if we are 100%mortal and 'just gone' when we die (if that is the case), we do understand that life on earth goes on, and we want to do our little bit to make the world a better place for our children and so on.

Sorry if this post is worded poorly, i'm a bit tired and English is not my first language.

 

[Mike]

That is absolutely true.

And it is also absolutely true that no one can make that statement unless that is true for them because, by definition if they believe they can be a good person without a good or after life or some form of continuity then so to can others and therefore that statement has no meaning.

So whenever someone makes that statement they are projecting and there is no way around that. They are saying "i could not be a good person without that" and that leads them to want to believe that is true of everyone and not just them so they therefore do not see themselves as a person of little or bad character.

It's weird, I've had arguments here with religious doggers, and when it comes out I'm fairly morally conservative they're shocked. One dude flat out refused to believe we have very similar moral beliefs, in his mind without fear of punishment everyone would automatically be a sociopath.


Kind of unsettling actually, as it just shows that a lot of people have no substance to their beliefs, beyond doing what they're told.


A lot of people legitimately freak out when you ask them to evaluate morality without the context of religion. As if it never occurred to them that once you become an adult, your beliefs should have some logic and substance to them

 

[MikeMcMann]

SMH. You just admitted nothing will matter to you after you die. What you do, ultimately will not matter - same for everyone else. It's eternal nothingness for everybody!

Now you're trying to disparage my character (despite the fact that I've already told you that I have no desire to do the bad things we've discussed as examples for arguments sake) because you don't like the implications that I forced you to acknowledge about your own worldview. Lol.

No those things can be mutually exclusive which is a comprehension problem you seem unable to get over.

Mozart is dead but his life and works matter to me for the time of my life. So does my fathers life and death mean something tome. They matter to ME.

You speak from your POV and then tell me that has to apply to me and others AND IT DOES NOT.

For me a life time can be finite and still have meaning and you keep saying 'no that cannot be true to you because I feel differently' is just stupid. So stop being stupid.

 

[Meap]

"Ultimately" is the key word. Tell me, how much is it going to matter to you once you die?

Who gives a shit?

Why get hung up on it?

Enjoy your life, and don't be a dick. Isn't that enough?

 

[MikeMcMann]

We don't live in isolation though, most of us are aware that we leave an imprint on earth - however small and insignificant it may seem - for future generation, the loved ones we leave behind, the state of the world that we leave to our children. Even if we are 100%mortal and 'just gone' when we die (if that is the case), we do understand that life on earth goes on, and we want to do our little bit to make the world a better place for our children and so on.

Sorry if this post is worded poorly, i'm a bit tired and English is not my first language.

Its not worded poorly and what you say is absolutely correct.

He will say 'no, that is not how I see it and therefore you have to see it differently' but that is because he is dumb.

Many of us can accept our existence is finite and our role tiny but also accept that within our minor sphere and for the time we are here our lives have meaning. Whether you are Mozart remembered generations later or a normal person only remembered by your friends and family for a few generations does not change anything. You can still want to live a good life and be motivated to so based on that desire to have a good life and legacy.

he will say you cannot care about your mortal legacy and time and how your friends and family will remember you unless there is something after death. I say that he is being stupid on that because while that can absolutely be true to him and for him that does not have to be the case for you and I.

 

[MikeMcMann]

It's weird, I've had arguments here with religious doggers, and when it comes out I'm fairly morally conservative they're shocked. One dude flat out refused to believe we have very similar moral beliefs, in his mind with fear of punishment everyone would automatically be a sociopath.


Kind of unsettling actually, as it just shows that a lot of people have no substance to their beliefs, beyond doing what they're told.


A lot of people legitimately freak out when you ask them to evaluate morality without the context of religion. As if it never occurred to them that once you become an adult, your beliefs should have some logic and substance to them

As I said, they are projecting.

just as the person with pedophilic tendencies might commit himself to the church in the hopes he does not transgress and believe only his faith is stopping him from acting on his horrid impulses that same person often believes others are also dealing with similar demons and only some sort of belief or faith keeps them from sinning. It is projection pure and simple. A way to feel 'less bad' or 'more normal' by saying everyone is like me.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Who gives a shit?

Why get hung up on it?

Enjoy your life, and don't be a dick. Isn't that enough?

if nothing mattered to you before you were born you can't possible be a good person once you get to live your life.

if nothing matters to you once you die then you cannot possibly be a good person while you live your life.

Logic.

 

[Meap]

Well, then there you have it. No afterlife means that ultimately, nothing you do will matter one bit at all. So live however the fuck you please. My point stands.

This is a rather broad leap to say the least. You are relying on this ominous "Ultimately" to devalue the argument against an afterlife.

"Ultimately" is beyond the scope of my concern.

What are we missing? Is there a big party in the sky scheduled for 19999, where Prince will rock our metaphysical faces off?

And as and argument, I'm getting bored with it. And what rational words can I offer to counter an attack of "nothing matters"?

 

[BearGrounds]

if nothing mattered to you before you were born you can't possible be a good person once you get to live your life.

if nothing matters to you once you die then you cannot possibly be a good person while you live your life.

Logic.

Lol this is a fuckin retarded misrepresentation of my argument. You keep doing that, no matter how many times I set your clown ass straight. Salty, methinks.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Lol this is a fuckin retarded misrepresentation of my argument. You keep doing that, no matter how many times I set your clown ass straight. Salty, methinks.

No it is not.

You keep telling me that FOR ME that nothing I do in my life would matter to me or others if there is not afterlife and therefore I could whatever I please including murder and rape.

That is absolutely false and you have zero right to keep speaking for me. If that is true for you fine but it is not for me. I have said that over and over and yet you keep misrepresenting me and mistating what is possible for others.

I can absolutely believe in no afterlife and that CAN make me appreciate this life MORE and think it is even MORE PRECIOUS since it is all we will ever have. You don't have to agree but for you to say 'no that is not possible, it has to be meaningless to you' is stupid and you deserve zero respectful debate if you are going to keep repeating that falsehood.

 

[savemgs]

 

[Rod1]

Yeah, im having anxiety over work, family, stressful week.

And now a crippling fear of death, not only that im not sure which is scarier the perspective of nothingness or eternal life.

Jesus, im having a nervous breakdown while im on my house alone without my wife. If i was addicted to drugs i would had killed myself.

I need to sleep and i need some medication.

Good night Sherdog.