Libs has played conservatives with Milo

[LTJGE]

I wasn't talking about you specifically. I was talking about the party you represented in your post. It was you who made a sweeping generalization.





eh, I'll take people getting excited over a presidents campaign platform over some people throwing rocks through windows and crying while they talk about their period and bombing the white house.

The left has responded exactly as a 3 year old when you take his favorite toy away. Its embarrassing and it shocks me that you would identify yourself as one of those people.

You know when you generalise that much that no one with half a brain takes you seriously? It's embarrassing to see how often people approach complex discussions in such black and white terms these days.

 

[ucunc156]

I should say that it's a subset of the right, but one that is politically in control. There are still people who believe in low taxes, low spending, minimal regulations, strong defense, and who are cautious about social change and accept that there are other well-meaning folks who disagree on the best way forward and that we have a process for resolving that disagreement that works. But those people are a much smaller and less-influential bloc than they thought just a year ago (including--or especially--within the GOP and the American right political movement generally), and many of them have shown a disturbing willingness to sell out a lot of their principles for some items on that agenda (or mostly just one--low taxes for rich people, especially, if not exclusively).

If you remember 5-6 years ago, we used to go at it, and I was a part of the right you described above. But the current right has completely lost its mind and is untenable.

 

[Seano]

What do you make of the fact that a plurality of Republican voters don't support their party's economic agenda? Or that Trump knows nothing about policy? Read through the WR, too. Right-wingers don't argue about policy anymore. It's just about how much they hate the left.

I disagree. I think the right is working quite hard on policy. When the left actually decides to go to work for this country and stop filibustering the country, then you'll see the difference.

Maybe you missed my comment. I asked, "Did you miss the presidential campaign?" Clinton had detailed proposals on everything, and her speeches were all about policy proposals. Trump got up and rambled, talking shit about people he doesn't like, etc. Just compare their websites.

If Hillary had been the better choice she would have won, she had the entire media world fighting along side her but her platform was so weak that they couldn't sell it. She was the smoother speaker but thats literally the only strength she had.

 

[Seano]

You know when you generalise that much that no one with half a brain takes you seriously? It's embarrassing to see how often people approach complex discussions in such black and white terms these days.

Why did you quote me instead of the person who originally made a broad, sweeping generalization in the post I quoted?

 

[Jack V Savage]

If you remember 5-6 years ago, we used to go at it, and I was a part of the right you described above. But the current right has completely lost its mind and is untenable.

Yeah. Not just you either. Pan, Hunter, and others. The kind of discussions we had could get heated and were based on real and significant disagreement, but within the parameters I described earlier. What's the best way to improve the lives of Americans in general? And we all understood that there's an effective process for deciding who gets their way and a set of jointly acknowledged facts that guide the discussion. I feel like Trump lifted the rock on the right-wing movement in America.

 

[ucunc156]

I disagree. I think the right is working quite hard on policy. When the left actually decides to go to work for this country and stop filibustering the country, then you'll see the difference.

Totally, thats why after 6 years of campaigning almost solely against Obamacare, now that they have control of all the branches of government, they are still yet to push forward a clear plan, let alone actually legislate it.

Its also why, despite having the political capital and ability to push its agenda forward through the normal legislative process, they are still wasting time with poorly executed and directed EOs.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I disagree. I think the right is working quite hard on policy. When the left actually decides to go to work for this country and stop filibustering the country, then you'll see the difference.

What policy are they working on? First item on the agenda was repealing the rule that says that financial advisers have to act in the best interests of their clients, right? Was that why Rust Belt retirees were enthusiastic about Trump? What happened to WR discussions about fiscal policy, environmental policy, etc.? It's all about how much right-wingers hate the left now.

If Hillary had been the better choice she would have won, she had the entire media world fighting along side her but her platform was so weak that they couldn't sell it. She was the smoother speaker but thats literally the only strength she had.

First of all, it's not about better or worse. It's just a fact that Clinton's campaign was heavily policy-centered while Trump's was not. You might prefer Trump's approach, but that doesn't change that fact. Like I said, a quick glance at their respective websites would make that point, as would watching any full speech either of them gave. Second, the assumption that the better candidate always wins is ... highly questionable, to say the least.

Clinton's pitch was basically, "I have pretty much all the policy experts on my side, a 10-point plan to deal with whatever issue you can come up with, and a shitload of relevant experience." Trump's pitch was, "Fuck her and her voters."

 

[Seano]

Totally, thats why after 6 years of campaigning almost solely against Obamacare, now that they have control of all the branches of government, they are still yet to push forward a clear plan, let alone actually legislate it.

Its also why, despite having the political capital and ability to push its agenda forward through the normal legislative process, they are still wasting time with poorly executed and directed EOs.

I still think people are being unreasonable with their expectations one month into the presidency, when the guy still doesn't even have a full cabinet confirmed and the courts decided to play president and overturn a big decision he made.

Like I said, when the Senate decides to go back to work for this country and stop the grandstanding, things will get done.

 

[Seano]

First of all, it's not about better or worse. It's just a fact that Clinton's campaign was heavily policy-centered while Trump's was not. You might prefer Trump's approach, but that doesn't change that fact. Like I said, a quick glance at their respective websites would make that point, as would watching any full speech either of them gave. Second, the assumption that the better candidate always wins is ... highly questionable, to say the least.

I think Trump was a lot more clear on what he wanted to accomplish than you claim.

He basically ran on repealing/repairing ACA, immigration reform and the economy. Some of you just weren't listening and got obsessed with golden shower stories and pussy grabbing.

 

[ucunc156]

I still think people are being unreasonable with their expectations one month into the presidency, when the guy still doesn't even have a full cabinet confirmed and the courts decided to play president and overturn a big decision he made.

Like I said, when the Senate decides to go back to work for this country and stop the grandstanding, things will get done.

the senate is majority republican. The house is majority republican. If by your own assessment, they are just grandstanding and not getting things done, how can you say that the right is "working quite hard on policy".

The fact of the matter is that they don't need the left as the breakout currently is. They can do whatever they want and still aren't doing it. Its either because their ideas are shit god awful (my opinion) and they are afraid of reprocussions, or because they don't have any ideas because they've been doing fuck all the past 6 years.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

I still think people are being unreasonable with their expectations one month into the presidency, when the guy still doesn't even have a full cabinet confirmed and the courts decided to play president and overturn a big decision he made.

Like I said, when the Senate decides to go back to work for this country and stop the grandstanding, things will get done.

They still had 6 years to come up with a plan for the "Replacement" piece when it came to Repealing and Replacing Obamacare.

But they never put forth anything. Trump just campaigned saying it was terrible and he would replace it with something better.

He never put forth any policy to replace it. The whole campaign was that the other side was wrong.

So far all we have is a plan to cut back on Medicaid and institute $5,000 tax credits for everyone that aren't even refundable credits.

Also look at the Muslim Ban. He doesn't say how or why the vetting process is weak and how it can be strengthened. He just says it's weak and makes up terrorist attacks

 

[Seano]

the senate is majority republican. The house is majority republican. If by your own assessment, they are just grandstanding and not getting things done, how can you say that the right is "working quite hard on policy".

The fact of the matter is that they don't need the left as the breakout currently is. They can do whatever they want and still aren't doing it. Its either because their ideas are shit god awful (my opinion) and they are afraid of reprocussions, or because they don't have any ideas because they've been doing fuck all the past 6 years.

Its not a strong enough majority that they can just pass everything that gets sent through. Thats exactly why the cabinet confirmations have taken so long.

 

[ucunc156]

Its not a strong enough majority that they can just pass everything that gets sent through. Thats exactly why the cabinet confirmations have taken so long.

pass everything? How about just one major thing? At this point in Obama's administration, they had passed the stimulus.

And I can't confirm, but I'm pretty sure it is a strong enough majority that if the dems filibuster, they can just cancel the filibuster in full.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

the senate is majority republican. The house is majority republican. If by your own assessment, they are just grandstanding and not getting things done, how can you say that the right is "working quite hard on policy".

The fact of the matter is that they don't need the left as the breakout currently is. They can do whatever they want and still aren't doing it. Its either because their ideas are shit god awful (my opinion) and they are afraid of reprocussions, or because they don't have any ideas because they've been doing fuck all the past 6 years.

You can also look back the primary. Jeb had a detailed plan to try and combat higher education costs.

Trump just called him low energy, said AC is dogshit and made fun of Rubio for being short and actually held up his hands to try and prove they weren't small.

You have to love Trump's policy.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I think Trump was a lot more clear on what he wanted to accomplish than you claim.

He basically ran on repealing/repairing ACA, immigration reform and the economy. Some of you just weren't listening and got obsessed with golden shower stories and pussy grabbing.

He didn't run on repealing the ACA--shit, he implied at many times that he was further to the left on healthcare than Democrats, though he also implied at other times that he was on the right. And he had nothing to say about the economy other than claiming that it was much worse than it was and implying vaguely that he'd do something to make it better. He didn't have any kind of serious plan. And what kind of immigration reform plans did he have? Just "immigration is bad, who's with me!!" "Yay!"

 

[Seano]

They still had 6 years to come up with a plan for the "Replacement" piece when it came to Repealing and Replacing Obamacare.

But they never put forth anything. Trump just campaigned saying it was terrible and he would replace it with something better.

He never put forth any policy to replace it. The whole campaign was that the other side was wrong.

So far all we have is a plan to cut back on Medicaid and institute $5,000 tax credits for everyone that aren't even refundable credits.

Also look at the Muslim Ban. He doesn't say how or why the vetting process is weak and how it can be strengthened. He just says it's weak and makes up terrorist attacks

Obama didn't roll out ACA his first month in. He was in almost a year and it is generally agreed that it was so rushed that it was full of holes, which has been proven true today.

I'd prefer they spend a few months on it and get it right, actually.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

pass everything? How about just one major thing? At this point in Obama's administration, they had passed the stimulus.

And I can't confirm, but I'm pretty sure it is a strong enough majority that if the dems filibuster, they can just cancel the filibuster in full.

They can cancel the filibuster but no senator wants that. It would have to be big legislation for that.

 

[Seano]

He didn't run on repealing the ACA--shit, he implied at many times that he was further to the left on healthcare than Democrats, though he also implied at other times that he was on the right. And he had nothing to say about the economy other than claiming that it was much worse than it was and implying vaguely that he'd do something to make it better. He didn't have any kind of serious plan. And what kind of immigration reform plans did he have? Just "immigration is bad, who's with me!!" "Yay!"

That's not true at all. He's been calling for the dismantling of Obama care since he announced he was running.

 

[ShoelessRye]

The GOP obstructed Obama for eight years. Dems had 59 Senators from 2008-2010 and it was a friggin turtles pace with the GOP in the Senate blocking everything they could. Arlen Specter had to switch parties because of his votes for crying out loud. On Obama's inaugeration night in 2008 Ryan, Cantor, McCarthy and a few others plotted a plan to obstruct everything and anything - and they did.

By this time in Obama's first 30 days TARP was already passed.

You want to whine about Dems getting back to work in the Senate - what did the GOP ever vote on in support of any Obama agenda? Either you're wholly disingenous in your outrage now or you never paied any attention to the past 8 years.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

Obama didn't roll out ACA his first month in. He was in almost a year and it is generally agreed that it was so rushed that it was full of holes, which has been proven true today.

I'd prefer they spend a few months on it and get it right, actually.

Did Obama spend 6 years running on the ACA?

And I'm not even talking about implementing it I'm just talking about having a detailed plan.

It's like they are scrambling now with no idea except nonrefundable tax credits.