Lemieux vs Stevens....no grappling allowed

[quincy k]

If you think Lemiux beats Canelo why don't you actually breakdown why, rather than using ridiculous linear arguments that essentially boil down to "Canelo has never beaten a genuine MW, therefore he can't beat a genuine MW".

Both Angulo and Kirkland were bigger than Canelo and as big as the majority of 160lb fighters, as was Trout. He beat them all and wasn't close to being hurt by any of them. He also walked through everything Cotto had, despite genuine MW's like Martinez and Geale collapsing at the very same power.

Cotto showed a better chin than he ever has done, and that's not exactly uncommon when a fighter goes up in weight. How did Tony Bellew, the guy who got KO'd by Adonis Stevenson stay upright against David Haye, who is about 60lbs heavier and one of the hardest punchers in world boxing? I imagine the extra weight and lack of weight cut had something to do with it. I'm sure it helped Cotto absorb Canelo's power too. Although Canelo isn't known as a murderous puncher anyway, he's much more a boxer than he is a puncher.

its the way that canelo is not dominating top 154s(trout, lara, cotto) that makes me believe he wont have success at 160

sergio was clearly injured, and on the decline, before his fight with cotto and geale was in all likelood finished after golovkin as well as possibly being weight-drained.

you are correct about canelo moving up in weight in that he could become a better fighter because of cutting weight. it happens but far less than often

 

[XThe GreatestX]

Yet you think Lemieux would give him problems with his one dimensional Provodnikov style? Lemiuex couldn't take the pressure from Rubio, he got outboxed by Alcine and Golovkin, showing 0 ability to adjust.

The hype is insane around Canelo? I'd say the hype around Lemiieux is a little out of control since Saturday.

cmon.... hes better than provo

 

[stuff jones]

Yet you think Lemieux would give him problems with his one dimensional Provodnikov style? Lemiuex couldn't take the pressure from Rubio, he got outboxed by Alcine and Golovkin, showing 0 ability to adjust.

The hype is insane around Canelo? I'd say the hype around Lemiieux is a little out of control since Saturday.

Lemiuex isn't like PRovodnikov. Lemiuex has massive power and pretty good handspeed and showed good toughness in the GGG fight. That's about it.

I never claimed he's great. But he's dangerous. Especially for someone who has never fought at the weight class before, let alone with probably the best puncher in that weight class.

I just don't understand why Canelo is so hyped. He has never cleanly beaten a good fighter as big as him. Lara was the closest but that could have gone either way. Cotto is the smaller man. None of his other wins are anything special, and they were mostly smaller men.

And yet he's ranked as a P4P guy. I don't understand. I get that he's got beautiful combos and nice handspeed for his size. And that despite his chubby, stuck in sand legs, he actually has decent defense. But he's made most of his hay through his youthful weight cutting ability.

 

[borntoloseNOT]

Legitimately shocked with outcome, I didn't think Curtis was necessarily winning this one, didn't see the KO happening that way though.

I really think Lemeiux is limited to taking scalps at the less than elite level, too easy to exploit by the creme de la creme, but this was a nice shot he landed. Stevens looked like he was sleeping peaceful and quiet, that was dynamite Lemeiux detonated.

 

[Canelo]

its the way that canelo is not dominating top 154s(trout, lara, cotto) that makes me believe he wont have success at 160

sergio was clearly injured, and on the decline, before his fight with cotto and geale was in all likelood finished after golovkin as well as possibly being weight-drained.

you are correct about canelo moving up in weight in that he could become a better fighter because of cutting weight. it happens but far less than often

But the fighters at 154 he didn't 'dominate' are better fighters than pretty much everyone at 160 barring Jacobs and GGG. Actual fighting ability always counts for more than 6 extra lbs.

Look at two of the guys he fought, Lara and Trout, who has domianted those guys? He didn't dominate them because they are very good defensive fighters who offer unique problems. There's barely anyopne like that at 160. Canelo has fought fighters who are his worst possible style match up and beaten them all. Of course he isn't going to dominate a guy like Lara.

160 is FULL of fighters who are a perfect style for Canelo, and when has he never not dominated a come forward, one dimensional fighter like a Stevens of Lemeuix? Those guys, bigger or not, are easy fights for Canelo than someone like Lara.

 

[quincy k]

But the fighters at 154 he didn't 'dominate' are better fighters than pretty much everyone at 160 barring Jacobs and GGG. Actual fighting ability always counts for more than 6 extra lbs.

Look at two of the guys he fought, Lara and Trout, who has domianted those guys? He didn't dominate them because they are very good defensive fighters who offer unique problems. There's barely anyopne like that at 160. Canelo has fought fighters who are his worst possible style match up and beaten them all. Of course he isn't going to dominate a guy like Lara.

160 is FULL of fighters who are a perfect style for Canelo, and when has he never not dominated a come forward, one dimensional fighter like a Stevens of Lemeuix? Those guys, bigger or not, are easy fights for Canelo than someone like Lara.

both lara and trout are 154s that are completely unproven at 160 and there is nothing to say that they would have any success at mw.

styles make matcups but lara gets steamrolled by lemuiex.

he would have nothing to keep him off of him and nothing to give back in return

i dont even know if lara is any better than ndam

ishe smith, delvin rodriguez, jan zaveck, vanes martirosyan and yuri foreman...why are you even mentioning erisladry lara as some great fighter when he hasnt fought anyone in close to three years?

great fighters fight great fighters

they dont pretend to be great by digging through garbage cans to find an opponent

 

[MC Paul Barman]

The guy has no gas tank. Any decent fighter he can't get out of there under 5 is going to work him over. You'll see.

He had a gas tank against N'Dam.
People were saying he would gas and get beat in that fight.
He carried his power well in that fight even though he was getting tired.

But in his fight with Stevens you don't give him the possibility that he may have just pulled back his activity in the 2nd for reasons other than gassing. Like intentionally conserving energy after a high paced first.