Kyokushin vs TKD?

spacetime said:
Bas Rutten got demolished when switching to Muay Thai in his first training with a strike to the liver, and informed viewers if the they thought kyokushin was tough....... He also added "It's a good base". The conditioning is by no means toughest out there.
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Demolished? his MT record is 14-1. and the "Rutten livershot" is something he learned from kyokushin where it is commonly used in tournaments. Or like he said in his Big DVD of combat (sorry for not finding a vid copy, the link I had is dead) "In the karate world, and that is where I come from, the kyokushin karate world, and that is bare knuckle fighting! I dont know if you know, but that is tough. forget about thaiboxing. That [kyokushin] Hurts!""

spacetime said:
Tae Kwon Do was originally a military martial art. The objective was to kill in combat.
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No. The objective of HTH in the army, any army, is to be hard PE that teach aggression. Army personnel have weapons which they are supposed to use and never drop, and be surrounded by fellow soldiers also carrying firearms. Unarmed HTH is a sidetrack not worth spending much valuable training time on. A soldier needing unarmed HTH has SERIOUSLY FUBARed and should just run. The only army personnel that needs HTH are MP
 
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spacetime said:
Just about any youtube video with Bas talking about his background.
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Oh, so it should be REALLY easy for you to find it and paste it here.

If you can't, it seems you're full of shit.


General Choi was a shotokan 2th dan who founded his own training methodology.

It's not a copy of shotokan, unless you attribute Karate to have invented roundhouse kicks and straight punches. There's only so many ways you can kick and strike.
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Sure, there are only so many ways. And it just so happens that TKD used to kick and punch the exact same way. Weird.
 
shinkyoku said:
Demolished? his MT record is 14-1. and the "Rutten livershot" is something he learned from kyokushin where it is commonly used in tournaments. Or like he said in his Big DVD of combat (sorry for not finding a vid copy, the link I had is dead) "In the karate world, and that is where I come from, the kyokushin karate world, and that is bare knuckle fighting! I dont know if you know, but that is tough. forget about thaiboxing. That [kyokushin] Hurts!""
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Bas clearly considers himself a Karate guy more than a Thai guy. When he had Machida on his show, he kept saying "I have to root for you, since we're both Karate guys and all..."

Even though it's two completely different styles.
 
spacetime said:
It's not a copy of shotokan, unless you attribute Karate to have invented roundhouse kicks and straight punches. There's only so many ways you can kick and strike.
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Nope.

kicks.jpg


Btw, who made this chart anyway?
 
My little Tony said:
Nope.

kicks.jpg


Btw, who made this chart anyway?
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Im supposed to be gone, but I have a couple of minutes to spare before leaving.
That chart was made for a kickboxing wiki type website that went offline about 10 years ago. It had a lot of good vids (from k-1, thaiboxing, savate any type of kickboxing really) and charts like this to explain the differences in techniques and tactics.
It was a very good site, and I really miss it.

I have to say however that while I like this chart, it oversimplify things (like not mentioning common variations within styles)
 
spacetime said:
Just about any youtube video with Bas talking about his background.
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I watched a loooooot of Bas Rutten content with him talking or commentating fights as I find his knowledge very dense and his way of expressing himself very funny.
I never once heard him say anything like that. Sounds to me like you're bullshitting.

If anything he tends to praise kyokushin rather than the opposite.

Obviously it then makes it difficult for me to believe any of the other crap you're saying.
 
Suggesting one is better or tougher than the other removes the most important variables from this discussion entirely: who is the teacher, where did they get their information, who is the student, how adept are they at absorbing the information and correctly performing the moves.

It is an utterly pointless debate with zero merit.
 
shinkyoku said:
Demolished? his MT record is 14-1. and the "Rutten livershot" is something he learned from kyokushin where it is commonly used in tournaments. Or like he said in his Big DVD of combat (sorry for not finding a vid copy, the link I had is dead) "In the karate world, and that is where I come from, the kyokushin karate world, and that is bare knuckle fighting! I dont know if you know, but that is tough. forget about thaiboxing. That [kyokushin] Hurts!""



No. The objective of HTH in the army, any army, is to be hard PE that teach aggression. Army personnel have weapons which they are supposed to use and never drop, and be surrounded by fellow soldiers also carrying firearms. Unarmed HTH is a sidetrack not worth spending much valuable training time on. A soldier needing unarmed HTH has SERIOUSLY FUBARed and should just run. The only army personnel that needs HTH are MP
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Ravelife said:
Suggesting one is better or tougher than the other removes the most important variables from this discussion entirely: who is the teacher, where did they get their information, who is the student, how adept are they at absorbing the information and correctly performing the moves.
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you have a good point but even without that it's easy to figure out that a full contact martial art is tougher than a non full contact one...
 
spacetime said:
Oh god. Bas Rutten got smashed in his first Muay Thai class and that's what I wrote. Rutten has mentioned it in almost every interview available on youtube. It's a miracle anyone interested in him has missed it. I won't dig it up for you.
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instead of repeating yourself over and over while no one believes you, just find one of those 'almost every interview available on youtube' to shut us up once and for all. There's a reason why you 'won't dig it up for us', it just doesn't exist.

His MT record is really relevant to bring up, if it weren't for the fact that he transitioned to MT:rolleyes: It does not reflect Kyokushin-Muay Thai, since he abandoned Kyokushin in favour of MT.
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if that's how you call it, then he abandoned tae kwon do in favour of kyokushin prior to that. how about that? :)
 
Tayski said:
instead of repeating yourself over and over while no one believes you, just find one of those 'almost every interview available on youtube' to shut us up once and for all. There's a reason why you 'won't dig it up for us', it just doesn't exist.



if that's how you call it, then he abandoned tae kwon do in favour of kyokushin prior to that. how about that? :)
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He abandoned WTF/Sport Taekwondo. I am too tired to fast forward his interview to mention his first Muay Thai class, and there are several out there.
 
Tayski said:
even without that it's easy to figure out that a full contact martial art is tougher than a non full contact one...
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I never claimed (any style) of TKD is tougher. I said kyokushin is basic in comparison to Muay Thai, when it comes to the physical stuff.
 
spacetime said:
He abandoned WTF/Sport Taekwondo. I am too tired to fast forward his interview to mention his first Muay Thai class, and there are several out there.
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you're not too tired to answer all our posts and repeat yourself over and over though.

spacetime said:
I never claimed (any style) of TKD is tougher.
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Yes you did, you said ITF tae kwon do is just as tough as kyokushin with just as much focus on body and knuckle conditioning. you even tried to impress by mentioning exercises that are done in class such as punching walls and how many situps you do in 2 minutes. come on dude

spacetime said:
I said kyokushin is basic in comparison to Muay Thai, when it comes to the physical stuff.
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and I say you have no clue what you're talking about. (and I'm not the first guy to tell you this)
You obviously have never trained in kyokushin, and probably haven't trained in Muay Thai either.
 
there are lots of schools who teach all the arts you mention,, it might be a good idea to try some and have your own opinion on that particular art rather than "you tube"

I have tried all arts you have mentioned , except a true legit muay thai class , I cant seem to find one with a guy from Thailand in the class lol mostly kick boxing called muay thai ,

keep in mind that not every tkd gym or karate gym are the same though , try to find legit places to train at
 
Yeah, like I care about impressing a random guy online. 200 situps in advance is not something to brag about. That's why I mentioned it

I have already provided sources for TKD traditions in conditioning, which makes modern Kyokushin appear soft. Their TKD sparring was not full contact in the clips, but sparring and conditioning are two different things. And there is full contact sparring in traditional TKD style, depending on where.
 
spacetime said:
Yeah, like I care about impressing a random guy online. 200 situps in advance is not something to brag about. That's why I mentioned it

I have already provided sources for TKD traditions in conditioning, which makes modern Kyokushin appear soft. Their TKD sparring was not full contact in the clips, but sparring and conditioning are two different things. And there is full contact sparring in traditional TKD style, depending on where.
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[YT]v1o0tdqAagE[/YT]

You should watch this video.
 
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