Karate scholar says Karate originates from siamese boxing/muay boran.

[Jimmy Jazz]

every ameridote enrollee gets a free freedom fry car holder!

lol you gave me a flashback of the bush era, bro.

 

[j123]

Weapons were banned in Okinawa - hence the development of Karate.

Sounds like they don't like freedom!

Spoiler

EDIT: Tetsui holding a weapon:

lol

every ameridote enrollee gets a free freedom fry car holder!

FUCK YA!!

Spoiler

 

[Kframe]

Muay Thai is one of the best arts around for effectiveness and the sword and stick were the main focus of combat, knees elbows kicks etc secondary. Why cant you accept that kung fu is rather crap with weapons, without, with the context of weapons etc



WHY DO TRADITIONAL ASIAN MARTIAL ARTS HAVE TO BE GOOD ? WHY? YOU MAD MEN!

Mauy Thai didnt have weapons, so no it was not the most effictive concerning weapons, where did you get that diarrhea? Krabi Krabong on the other hand, was a weapon art first..

 

[Kframe]

I have. It works fine. Modern sport fencing is a far cry removed from actual sword fighting, the lack of lateral movement and the unfamiliarity with a heavier blade makes it less effective than you might suppose.

I did Capofero for a few months and it was nothing like sport fencing, Training with a training rapier that was as heavy as a real sword was hard.

 

[Kframe]

I mean try it on the narrow runway yea they got watered down badly sad but ud get the jist of it if you were also narrowed down, it wouldnt be unimaginable to fight someone on a bridge anyway see how you fair on a bridge, then later realize they could do angles too a little further back, and that they are far superior

You are the heathen getting stabbed in the knee, because you have no understanding of western science. You have ideas for what is effective, good ideas built on experience, buy those ideas are inferior to western ideas.

Here we have an ignoramus, still doing it like a heathen despite science updating how to optimally sword fight, but he is convinced he knows best and that his way is superior so he carries on with his non scientific style while thinking of weak ego excuses as to why its just as good or better

A slow heavy sword held in the back with an immobile stance that doesn't protect the body very well cmon, see the light of reason

Damn you crazy traditional artists its like arguing with theists!

You tard, that picture is not from modern sport fencing, i have that book it is from HEMA fencing which is actual sword fighting, so of course it will have angles... Fucking be more clear with the bullshit you are spewing.

 

[shincheckin]

krabi krabong is dope, early muay thai was more similar to krabi krabong, constantly switching stances, than how it is today. Im pretty much open to learning anything and everything from every style possible. check out the muay thai used here.

 

[listrahtes]

Yeah I know but the romanticized view about their selfless servitude and sense of honor - those ideas never existed really historically.

Anyone can read what happened during the sengoku period.

Samurai tended to be self serving and had virtually no honor - that's why there was over 100 years of constant warfare, betrayals, murders - it was like Game of Thrones Japan style.

As much as gloryfying is a problem when viewing something like the samurai, you do the exact same thing and blind yourself by demonizing them. Its not better and equally wrong.

If you want to understand a historical process and group first shut down your judgement.

I wont engage in a battle of resources etc. but I will say one thing. Anyone who studies japans history will reach a much more complex verdict about them as you do and understanding culture in general is not about judging it even as that seems the most important factor nowadays. The japanese culture especially is not understood the slightest with such approach.

The SJW movement is the best example: Mindless
executioners, only the prejudices have changed.

I really miss a healthy dose of Poppers stream of thought & philosophy.

The samurai were a part of a cultural process like it happened and happens in many cultures while they develop when the warrior class rules. This is neither good or bad it just is and in the case of the samurai with japanese cultural specifics.

To read a historic text about samurai behaviour code has not much to do with how they behaved but what was expected of them & what was a cultural target. Much like in our middle ages in europe.

 

[Azam]

As much as gloryfying is a problem when viewing something like the samurai, you do the exact same thing and blind yourself by demonizing them. Its not better and equally wrong.

If you want to understand a historical process and group first shut down your judgement.

I wont engage in a battle of resources etc. but I will say one thing. Anyone who studies japans history will reach a much more complex verdict about them as you do and understanding culture in general is not about judging it even as that seems the most important factor nowadays. The japanese culture especially is not understood the slightest with such approach.

The SJW movement is the best example: Mindless
executioners, only the prejudices have changed.

I really miss a healthy dose of Poppers stream of thought & philosophy.

The samurai were a part of a cultural process like it happened and happens in many cultures while they develop when the warrior class rules. This is neither good or bad it just is and in the case of the samurai with japanese cultural specifics.

To read a historic text about samurai behaviour code has not much to do with how they behaved but what was expected of them & what was a cultural target. Much like in our middle ages in europe.

I don't demonize the samurai. I do demonize the silly romanticism that people in this part of the world seem to have for them. It's misplaced. Information and opinions should be based around facts. Sure we can all come to our conclusions - I have mine.

That makes no sense. Understanding a historical process is very different to having an opinion. You are meant to formulate opinions and come to conclusions when you study history. What judgement are you on about? I can't have an opinion - is that your issue here? Or is it an opinion you have an issue with more likely? If you do - by all means discuss it and change my mind.

But don't try to insinuate that I don't understand a historical process/group or that I'm being judgmental without understanding. It's a bit egotistical if I'm honest. Especially when history is abase with opinions.

Who is talking about Japanese culture here? I'm talking specifically about the mysticism of the samurai.

What does the SJW movement have to do with anything here? Why are you bringing politics into a discussion that was devoid of politics?

To be honest I'd lay off whatever dose of poppers you are taking and whatever thought & philosophy you're reading.

It's more than mindless to come into a thread, tell someone they're not understanding historical information, that they are being judgmental and then follow it by I won't engage in a battle of resources (basically I'm not backing up anything I disagree with you about)...

The samurai were a part of a cultural process like it happened and happens in many cultures while they develop when the warrior class rules. This is neither good or bad it just is and in the case of the samurai with japanese cultural specifics.

To read a historic text about samurai behaviour code has not much to do with how they behaved but what was expected of them & what was a cultural target. Much like in our middle ages in europe.

Are you living in a bubble? You're responsible for your actions. That's how life works. When the samurai ethos results in mass raping and murder at points in history - then it is bad. There is also some good. Just because a society/culture is developing doesn't absolve them of responsibility. Following your line of 'neither good or bad' thought - you must absolve (neither good or bad after all) the Nazi's of their crimes too because they were part of a cultural process in Germany. Are you going to start absolving all the guillotining's of the French revolution or the horror of the Gulag's - they were all historic cultural processes - I mean following your line of thought they are neither good or bad.

There is good & bad - and you have to acknowledge them both - not pretend that it's neither way. In the case of the mysticism of the samurai there is a lot of glorifying/ignorance without understanding historical implications of their ethos. I highlighted many of their bad's because as the case with romanticism of any kind - the focus is on all the good.

But if you had actually read all of my posts and understood the context you would have realised this without starting your post with "you do the exact same thing and blind yourself by demonizing them."

 

[Inquisitus]

One thing I do find odd about samurais was the lack of shields. I dunno, every culture in human history uses a shield, its a natural instinct to protect yourself. Even when we train in striking, we don't go out there with no guard and pure offense while relying 100% on slips, evasive movement, and parrying. Get tagged? Your hands come up real quick and you don't let it drop again. Going with no guard you'd get clipped real quick down the line. And with swords you can't exactly "test your chin". Now I'm not sure if that was again another hyperbole of the myth for manhood, or if it was real, because to me it really seems odd. Okay, maybe your top 1% guys can do that, but not your entire attack force.


They were, but for some reason its kinda of accepted that knights were alcoholics that did douchey things, whereas samurais have this warrior saint image to them still.

Then there's the whole ninjas were different from sams when in reality sammies moonlighted hit jobs for some extra monies.

The samurai class were originally horse archers and their mode of combat was, at the early part of their development, highly ritualized and one-on-one. Their bows were man-height. It would've been unseemly (and a little difficult) to hide behind a shield. Eventually, the armor on their shoulders and arms were their shield.

And Japan never went through an enlightenment period like Europe where the framework to question history was encoded into the culture. Plus, the main religion (Shinto) reveres ancestors. Hence, Japan's lack of Germany like ownership of their WW2 crimes.

 

[AshiharaFan]

Samurai tended to be self serving and had virtually no honor

I wouldn't say that they had no honor. I would say that their sense of honor was misguided and came about for reasons most people aren't aware of and wouldn't believe.

The honor code in general in feudal Japan came about due to people risking the loss of everything if they did not perform according to the standards or expectations of others in feudal Japanese society. Many warriors (including the Samurai) "won" land and status for their entire family (READ: clan) whenever they did what was expected of them on the battlefield. If they did not do so then their clan would lose everything and the warriors would feel heavy shame for having let their clan down. The only way for a warrior to lose in battle and their clan can still keep their land was for the warrior to save face and they did that by committing ritual suicide (Hara Kiri/ Seppuku). Their reasoning was that it is better that they die an "Honorable" death (in battle or by suicide) than to lose in battle and show their sorry faces to their family whom they disappointed and are now without their land thanks to him allowing himself to lose in battle. The land and status in society (as reward) was granted and taken away by The Shogunate.

Over time everything became attached to this "honor code". To do something cowardly or shameful stained the honor of the entire clan and the reason was because the entire clan could lose something due to one member's actions. Over time, shame and loss of face was reason enough to not stain or "insult" one's honor.

This is the birth of that selfless servitude and undying honor that I was talking about in my last post. It was born, not out of TRUE selflessness, but out of the need to protect the family name and their family's status in society.

There's a lot that I'm leaving out as I wanted to give a cliff's note version of the history. But this is the honor that still exists today and I wonder how many Japanese people are aware of this.