Judo vs wrestling

[Dangrabbit**]

[YT]btkrDUtJDPU[/YT]

As long as the wrestler doesn't tie up with the judo man he will win the takedown battle because he can shoot from a distance where the judo man cannot use his takedowns.This is why I feel wrestling is much more effective for grappling and street fighting (no walls like in mma to force a clinch). Judo throws are great but without a clinch it is useless, while wrestling is not but if there is a clinch there are still a ton of moves that can be used from wrestling. If you are fighting in an open area it is very hard to get a clinch established if the other guy doesn't wanna clinch. And if he has good stand up skills or atleast better than what you have (if you train exclusively grappling) you are gonna have a bad time if you can't shoot from a distance. Same thing applies to grappling comp. (like adcc) if the other guys avoids the clinch.

 

[DushanS94]

These comparisons always come off as very, very dumb. Judo IS a form of wrestling, just with the gi and with submissions added. No gi, wrestling is more effective. Put the wrestler in a gi and he will get thrown around. Different sports, different ruleset, same principle.

 

[Dangrabbit**]

These comparisons always come off as very, very dumb. Judo IS a form of wrestling, just with the gi and with submissions added. No gi, wrestling is more effective. Put the wrestler in a gi and he will get thrown around. Different sports, different ruleset, same principle.

yes he will get thrown around because the judo man could establish grips with a gi so he can put himself in position to throw. but no gi there is nothing to hold the guy from simply moving out of the way. And yes Judo is basically wrestling with a gi on because shooting would be very hard if the guy has good grips

 

[Charlitos1988]

how will you shoot on the streets? you will shatter your knees on the concrete...

 

[priderulez]

yes he will get thrown around because the judo man could establish grips with a gi so he can put himself in position to throw. but no gi there is nothing to hold the guy from simply moving out of the way. And yes Judo is basically wrestling with a gi on because shooting would be very hard if the guy has good grips

Also how often if at all a street fight happens when fighters are wearing shorts only? Most of the time there are jackets/sweaters ect. Cant really say wrestling is more effective in the streets than Judo/BJJ. It all depends, any generalization would be wrong

 

[Kaffe]

But wrasslers no do armbaaaar. And they no learn the juuudo choop! And wrassling makes you rely on leotards, and that can get cold in the winter.

Seriously dude. Making artificial distinctions between arts just serves to make for a stupid discussion where shooting becomes a magic technique only possesed by wrasslers and hip throws are the legendary techniques of judo alone.

At my second session in greco i got thrown with a koshi guruma, and I relatively often get taken down by doubles in casual judo sessions.

Also: foot sweeps trump hip throws and shots on da deadly str33ts.

 

[CeeJay]

I'm pretty certain the guy who made the video is retarded. How can you conceivably claim that he's the #3 judo guy in japan and then proceed to claim he's #2 in the world?

 

[Shemhazai]

Since you didn't care to reply to these points in the other thread(s), I'll say it again:

1. People don't usually attack you in open fields and vacant parking lots, they do so in nightclubs and back-alleys, and if you find yourself unable to close the distance, then you are not being attacked, nor forced to continue to fight. You're describing juvenile challenge matches, not self defense scenarios.

2. You completely ignore the fact that you can clinch and hit judo style throws by stuffing the opponent's shot and tying up with the whizzer, especially if your opponent is shooting from a distance. You see freestyle wrestlers do this all the time in the Olympics, and it's getting pretty common in the UFC as well. Finding a video of a judoka who sucks at defending against leg attacks proves very little.

 

[Judo Thai Boxer]

He's called Akinori Hongi and was rank 92 two months before the video, not sure about now - could be better or worse. Nowhere near the ranking the guy was claiming.

He looked terrible to be honest, like he'd never competed without a gi on.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

These threads still pop up?

 

[aichokyu]

i think you are wrong about the street fighting :

- people are ofter wearing clothes in the streets, so there is some probability that the judo guy would have something to grab
- wrestlers could bust their knees on pavement or rocks while shooting
- the street is not an infinitely open area, there are buildings, walls, fences, trees, cars, so there is a high probability that the two would tie up at some point.
- and judo has submissions that wrestling hasn't, wrestling guy would be subbed after eventually taking down the judo guy

 

[Shemhazai]

I'm pretty certain the guy who made the video is retarded. How can you conceivably claim that he's the #3 judo guy in japan and then proceed to claim he's #2 in the world?

Maybe the third guy is some super secret ninja who isn't allowed to leave Japan.

 

[Bluesbreaker]

I recommend everybody just leave now.

 

[kintana]

I will not deny that there is a practicality about wrestling that translates well when facing other grappling arts.

I have seen here in venezuela judo and sambo competitions were wrestlers with very little cross training win some tournaments. And I dont mean grappling tournaments I mean full judo and sambo tournaments. Though they win by points not submission. Some tournaments actually ban wrestlers for entering if they dont have a judo only back ground.

However I dont think that video accurately shows what a judo guy can do in a street fight.

 

[Lou Reed]

I recommend everybody just leave now.

I will take this advice, thank you.

 

[crazyjames1233]

another shitty style vs style thread...

 

[Leverage]

You do realise that Judo also includes double legs, single legs, ankle picks etc? They're just illegal under the current IJF ruleset. If the IJF decided to change the ruleset to allow or emphasize blast double legs and other prominent wrestling techniques your using to make your point the sport would look just like wrestling, except with submissions and a gi.

If they reverted back to allowing more time on the floor it'd also start looking allot like BJJ. Judo isn't just clinch fighting. It has all sorts of locks and strangles and that includes spine locks & leg locks. They even have 'atemi-waza'. Striking techniques and various other self defence focused techniques that you may be overlooking when it comes to a street fight.

Olympic judo is very limited. I'll give you that. But the art itself isn't. A few changes by the IJF can dramatically change Judos perceived effectiveness against other styles. Its just they obviously feel that the current (albeit heavily restricted) ruleset is in the arts best interest to stay in the olympics.

Both are great styles, and its effectiveness depends on the practioner.
IMO, the best self defence for a street fight is either size/athleticism, the 200m sprint or a weapon.

 

[slick1111]

leverage said it best it really does not matter what grappling art is used since it depends on how well the person is implementing it. i will say wrestling by far is more effective grappling art for the most part. there is a saying that any person can beat any other person on any given day. as for the street people gotta realize again i will say wrestlinig can still be more effective but for the most part anyone who trains any grappling will do do fine, simply because as along as you are traing with real resistance and are used to that feeling of engaging someone, especially someone who is not familiar with grappling. For all of you who think you cant shoot On conrete, well you can, i know since i have done it, and wrestling is a lot more then just shooting for takedowns. People who dont wrestle dont get it. allot of what you learn wrestling is grapple sense, knowing when to push, when to pull and how to make someone else carry your weight using mommentum. That is why wrestler always feel so strong. All that that video showed was one guy who was better at shooting then the other. even if they had gis on the result would have been the same. if they changed the rules and did greco rules or judo where you cant touch the legs then you would see a difference. but i will say it did highlight why wresting is more effective all around, and it is that way mainly for the manner in which it is trained. that is whay ift is a good base i think for all grapppling arts. once you have leared to wrestle to learn judo or bjj is just learning new moves. a guy who has wrestled even for a year or two starts to learn that gapple sense very quickly.

 

[Cgko]

People who dont wrestle dont get it. allot of what you learn wrestling is grapple sense, knowing when to push, when to pull and how to make someone else carry your weight using mommentum.

...uh...like judo?:icon_neut

 

[ChainFlow]

You do realise that Judo also includes double legs, single legs, ankle picks etc? They're just illegal under the current IJF ruleset. If the IJF decided to change the ruleset to allow or emphasize blast double legs and other prominent wrestling techniques your using to make your point the sport would look just like wrestling, except with submissions and a gi.

If they reverted back to allowing more time on the floor it'd also start looking allot like BJJ. Judo isn't just clinch fighting. It has all sorts of locks and strangles and that includes spine locks & leg locks. They even have 'atemi-waza'. Striking techniques and various other self defence focused techniques that you may be overlooking when it comes to a street fight.

Olympic judo is very limited. I'll give you that. But the art itself isn't. A few changes by the IJF can dramatically change Judos perceived effectiveness against other styles. Its just they obviously feel that the current (albeit heavily restricted) ruleset is in the arts best interest to stay in the olympics.

Both are great styles, and its effectiveness depends on the practioner.
IMO, the best self defence for a street fight is either size/athleticism, the 200m sprint or a weapon.

Look, I love judo. But having techniques on a list of waza in an appendix of Mifune's books doesn't mean that judo "has" neck, spine, or leg locks. Practically no one knows how to do them and the half dozen old men that do have never used them in sparring.

Additionally, even going off of old judo books, they are missing a ton of leg locks like the kneebar and heel hook. Judo has never been an art that is any good at leglocks. Never.

Similarly, in ten years no one in judo will have a clue how to deal with a double leg. It's sad but true.

As for wrestling v judo - no gi, wrestler takes down judoka and then gets armbarred. Gi, wrestler gets hikkomi gaeshi'd and choked from mount.

/countertroll