Is Making Weight All Discipline?

[Sid Arthur]

Height & Reach aren't the end of all. You have to consider Bone density. Also shape of Body differs from person to person. There are 3 types of body
Ectomorphs, Endomorphs & Mesomorphs. Also different types of Metabolism, which apparently also depends on the environment of your living, makes difference a lot.

I should also mention psychological issues, which seem to especially effect women in regards to weight. People eat for comfort when they're depressed, and depression is rampant.

 

[Sid Arthur]

Cutting weight and losing weight are two different things.

Well said. But both of them effect making weight. Hendricks and Calderwood seems to struggle losing weight, or just maintaining a healthy fighting weight. Which does call for an extremely low body fat.

And let's be real, WMMA is still in its infancy, there are so few fighters of high quality, and fighting is definitely not for everyone, especially among women. If MMA has taught us anything, it's that being a fucking fighter with good technique is way better than having great technique without being a fucking fighter.

So we get people like Tank that are not elite athletes but can whip them.

 

[faustian]

I seem to remember Rogan telling a story of Rhonda

Stopped reading

But to address the thread title: you can have the same weight-cutting routine protocol that works for years, but then suddenly your kidneys give out. That's not really a discipline issue at that point

 

[Lockard The GOAT]

It's part of their job to make weight. If you agree to fight at a certain weight and you fail to make the weight, then you aren't doing your job properly (short of some other variable that prevents you from being able to cut weight properly, like an illness or something.)

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

But ultimately it's all a function of calories. Illness and injury aside, given enough time, I don't see how anyone could have consistent problems making weight without discipline issues.

That's a different idea than the idea that making weight is all discipline.

If you took two equally disciplined fighters and gave one the most modern coaching/science on cutting weight, and the other something less advanced and sophisticated, the former would have an easier time making weight, all else equal.

That's all I'm saying. There is obviously a giant discipline component, but weight-cutting *is* a skill in and of itself, even divorced for discipline. Ditto with "weight management" to a lesser extent.

 

[TriangleMonkey]

The reason people dont make weight during a "weight cut" is simply that they did not diet down correct and lose weight prior to "cutting".

The more you depend on water loss during the cut the more chance youre gonna have at failing. Thats where the true discipline takes place, dieting and eating correctly waaay prior to the bout then making the water cut for the very last bit of weight.

Guys like Jonny and others feel confident in losing 20lbs of water one day before weigh ins

 

[John Wick]

I eat the same food every single day minus a cheat meal once or twice a week. No snacks, no additives no juice/soda. I've kept my weight at around 145-150 at 5'9 about 15% body fat for over a year and i'm no damn athlete nor is it my full-time job to keep my weight down. It's not about discipline. It's a lifestyle choice. My diet doesn't take discipline, it's just a commitment. That's why i roll my eyes whenever a Johny fucking Hendricks misses weight. This is your job you moron. Put the burger down.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

yes, making weight is 100% discipline / mental toughness

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

I eat the same food every single day minus a cheat meal once or twice a week. I've kept my weight at around 145-150 at 5'9 about 15% body fat for over a year and i'm no damn athlete nor is it my full-time job to keep my weight down. It's not about discipline. It's a lifestyle choice. My diet doesn't take discipline, it's just a commitment. That's why i roll my eyes whenever a Johny fucking Hendricks misses weight. This is your job you moron. Put the burger down.

that's not that hard though, the hard part is then cutting from 145 to 125 3x a year. Those last 2-3 pounds when you are literally dreaming about drinking water out of a stream when you drive by. People who have never cut significant weight have no understanding of how difficult it can be. Literally, having a lapse and chugging water vs only drinking 4oz is a 2 pound mistake. You do that the night before weigh ins and just dont have it in you to cut it back down that's how people miss weight

 

[GSPSAKU]

I seem to remember Rogan telling a story of Rhonda going into the sauna and dropping 15 lbs after someone whined about not being able to make weight.

This goes for wrought control with people in general. I've been between 145 and 198 in my adult life, and in my experience its purely a matter of intention to control calories.

Umm, yes, making weight for professional fighters is all discipline. I don't understand how one could think otherwise.

Now if someone is trying out a new weight class for the first time and doesn't make it, I definitely would give them the benefit of the the doubt that maybe they thought they could make a lower weight class but can't. If you can't make a weight that you've made before, it's definitely all discipline

 

[John Wick]

that's not that hard though, the hard part is then cutting from 145 to 125 3x a year. Those last 2-3 pounds when you are literally dreaming about drinking water out of a stream when you drive by. People who have never cut significant weight have no understanding of how difficult it can be. Literally, having a lapse and chugging water vs only drinking 4oz is a 2 pound mistake. You do that the night before weigh ins and just dont have it in you to cut it back down that's how people miss weight

Keeping your weight down throughout the year is easy. If fighters kept their weight down they would weight cut easier. That's all i'm saying. It's not about discipline. It's about making it a lifestyle. You can't go digging into the carbs in the off-season.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Keeping your weight down throughout the year is easy. If fighters kept their weight down they would weight cut easier. That's all i'm saying. It's not about discipline. It's about making it a lifestyle. You can't go digging into the carbs in the off-season.

what im saying is the last 5lbs is about discipline, and that's where most fighters lose. Guys coming in 1-2 lbs over is because they drank/ate more than they should have the last 24-48 hours because they mentally couldnt hold out on only drinking 4oz of water and broke down and chugged. Keeping your weight down year round doesnt make those last few pounds significantly easier if you are cutting a lot

 

[knock_you_out]

Discipline and fighting in the right weight division.

 

[John Wick]

what im saying is the last 5lbs is about discipline, and that's where most fighters lose. Guys coming in 1-2 lbs over is because they drank/ate more than they should have the last 24-48 hours because they mentally couldnt hold out on only drinking 4oz of water and broke down and chugged. Keeping your weight down year round doesnt make those last few pounds significantly easier if you are cutting a lot

No actually most fighters make weight if your looking at this statistically. To backtrack, my initial point essentially is: keeping the weight off in the off-season and the weight cut will be easier. i.e. Jon Jones is at 218 a month before he needs to make weight. I never said weight cutting is easy and that it didn't require discipline. That's common sense and a level of discipline is required in any area of weight management or cutting. Those other insignificant details you added is describing a person with a lack of experience in weight cutting. If you understand the process it doesn't require the exaggerated situations where fighters are breaking to get some water and coming in 1-2 pounds overweight and being put into a situation where their struggling to get that last bit of weight off. It shouldn't get to that point. That's not a discipline issue, it's an experience issue and how you managed your weight in the off-season.

 

[560ti]

Its mostly discipline. Its not hard at all to cut 10 to 15lbs of water the week of a fight (i've done 18lbs and compete at a low weight class).

The biggest thing that fucks up these weight cuts is fighters ballooning up when they don't have a fight which is 100% lack of discipline.

There is no reason why you should weight much more than 20lbs over your weight class when you don't have a fight scheduled. Your a fucking pro athlete, decent diet and a little bit of sprints should easily put you no more than 20lbs above your weight class (especially for the lower weight classes).

Guys like Gastleum, Cejudo, Hendricks, Charles Oliveria, and Khabib lack the discipline in the offseason and as a result get to be 30lbs or more above there weight class. They then seem confused when they can't lose 30lbs in 10 weeks........

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

No actually most fighters make weight if your looking at this statistically. To backtrack, my initial point essentially is: keeping the weight off in the off-season and the weight cut will be easier. i.e. Jon Jones is at 218 a month before he needs to make weight. I never said weight cutting is easy and that it didn't require discipline. That's common sense and a level of discipline is required in any area of weight management or cutting. Those other insignificant details you added is describing a person with a lack of experience in weight cutting. If you understand the process it doesn't require the exaggerated situations where fighters are breaking to get some water and coming in 1-2 pounds overweight and being put into a situation where their struggling to get that last bit of weight off. It shouldn't get to that point. That's not a discipline issue, it's an experience issue and how you managed your weight in the off-season.

I dont think you understand how much some of these guys are cutting. Maintaining weight in many cases is still at a much higher weight than they fight at. They still want to maintain muscle mass. Look at Conor, he keeps his weight in check but still has to drain the hell out of himself to make 145, you don't think it was hard for him to limit how much he ate and drank the last 24-48 hours? You obviously have never cut before. Every single wrestler out there who didn't wrestle at their "natural" weight will tell you how hard the last 24-48 hours is.

lowering your mass and maintaining your weight closer to the actual class defeats the purpose of why guys cut down below their natural weight class

 

[RiseAboveHat]

Yeah pretty much, nobody is forcing these athletes to eat like shit.

This. And if they didn't want to make such changes to their lifestyle to accomidate the weight class their in, they can always go up and eat whatever they want


Unless they're Hendricks of course

 

[UhHuhSure]

Of course it takes discipline. Managing your diet, eating clean, working out. Eat, sleep, train, repeat...

Some fighters are trying to cut absurd amounts of weight to gain an edge.

 

[John Wick]

I dont think you understand how much some of these guys are cutting. Maintaining weight in many cases is still at a much higher weight than they fight at. They still want to maintain muscle mass. Look at Conor, he keeps his weight in check but still has to drain the hell out of himself to make 145, you don't think it was hard for him to limit how much he ate and drank the last 24-48 hours? You obviously have never cut before. Every single wrestler out there who didn't wrestle at their "natural" weight will tell you how hard the last 24-48 hours is.

lowering your mass and maintaining your weight closer to the actual class defeats the purpose of why guys cut down below their natural weight class

And I think your generalizing. Again, no shit the last 24-48 hours is hard --that's common sense weight cutting is unnatural and unhealthy so it's obviously not going to be fun and it requires mental discpline---BUT my entire point is that if you keep the weight down in the off-season it can be easier. That's all i'm saying. Guys like Jones (current Jones, again he's at 218 a month before weigh-in), Conor, etc all don't lose muscle mass. Ok let's look at Conor then:

Conor at 145 (this obviously takes discipline because he has no business in this weight division if he looks like that at weigh in)

Conor at 170 ( no weight cut)

Conor at 168 (no weight cut)

Conor at 155 (weight cut)

Now Conor was at 168 at UFC 202 against Nate at Welterweight. Therefore, from September-November he had to drop only 13 pounds. Conor walks around at 160-165 and isn't cutting that much weight for 155. That's what ALL fighters should strive for. Keep the weight down. Keep the fat down. It's just a process when you understand your body , managed your weight in the off-season, and have the experience of weight cutting.

 

[Drain Bamage]

Ignoring all the stuff the fighters do have control of there are some intangibles like kidney and thyroid function and a whole lot more..

Like with Hendricks I think he overeats, sure. But i think he used to be able to pull it off whereas nowadays something has changed to wear he simply cant drop the lbs like he used too. Like something physiological changed like his kidneys maybe just aren't up to cutting weight anymore.