Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by the ambush, Feb 24, 2018.
Royce had never been a world class submission guy. Fyi.
Found another person whose opinion on mma is null and void. This thread is like a flytrap.
49 yo Mike would put Royce in his 20 to sleep...you dumbo.
Watch the first 4 ufc events then come back. The ignorance of new fans on this forum is astounding.
Simple as this: If you don't know how to defend takedowns (which he couldn't), or how to stand back up (which he couldn't), jiu-jitsu or wrestling wins.
UFC 1 would absolutely favor Royce, but by 4, people were at least aware enough of his game that a mediocre guy like Keith Hackney was able to tag him quite a few times, and at least keep it standing for much longer than the earlier events. Mike coming in with even a Hackney level of TDD would make it a very dangerous fight for Royce.
That said, damn, Hackney was an entertaining dude to watch.
New fans...lol. check my join date (for whatever it counts) then shut the fuck up bro.we get it.. you downloaded ufc 1 and watched it and drunk all the gracie propaganda which is great and cool. Publicly not giving mike fucking tyson a chance against anyone in the world is pure ignorance and show how biased you are.
You just keep sounding more moronic.
Give me one reason Mike Tyson should be favored over Royce Gracie at ufc 1 besides "hurdur he's a good boxer" and "he's, like, super athletic," (neither of which will stop a takedown or get up off of the ground).
We all know how often "puncher's chance" actually works out for the puncher in question.
He had a black belt in BJJ. How many of those existed in the early 90's?
He was also the guy they chose to represent the Gracie family name. While he wasn't Rickson, the Gracie family would never have put that weight on Royce's shoulders if he wasn't a world class caliber submission guy. They knew he would win.
World class is sorta a generic term. I guess if you mean actual competition on the world stage, then no, Royce wasn't a world class submission guy.
Well prime Iron Mike was more than just a good boxer for starters. He’d also hold a 40 lb. weight advantage over Royce, who was never a high level wrestler. I don’t think anyone would argue that Mike would be fucked the moment the fight hit the ground. It’s just no guarantee that Royce would be able to get it there. Ironically, I’d be much more certain that Shamrock and Severn, two guys whom Royce submitted, would easily dispatch Tyson as they had both the size and takedown acumen to plant him on his back.
Tyson was just being humble. There is NO WAY Royce would survive the first punch and he wasn't exactly a wrestling champion. Prime Tysons was super quick, no early UFC fighters would have come close to his athleticism. Athletically, they were pretty much bums. Royce like he always did, would try to go for a take down or drag down. Tyson would quickly avoid that and answer with whatever he pleases. Royce would go down and not get up. He was only 173 lbs and scrawny as hell, his neck would probably broke
Says the guy who called me a new fan but has joined 4 years after . yes...spare me the narrative of how you 've been around longer etc etc. If i was you i would disappear for 2 3 months, hope everyone forgot about this and come back with a new name. By smart guy .
If it was known that Tyson was gonna fight, they would've swapped out Royce and replaced him with Rickson for sure..., who would've stood a way better chance against Tyson
There were good athletes in the early UFCs. Mike Tyson was not a great athlete outside of boxing, and has said that he was terrible at other sports. Shamrock, Severn and Kimo were all good athletes, were bigger than Tyson, let alone Royce, and all of them had wrestling and grappling experience. Royce still beat them because he knew more and was better.
Athleticism isn't a deciding factor when the skill and knowledge gap is so large. Every guy Royce beat was probably a better athlete than him.
Hackney had a wrestling background. He was a state tournament qualifier in school. So, Mike wouldn't have a Hackney level of TDD.
It's not a coincidence that the guys who did sorta okay against Royce had wrestling backgrounds. That's what allowed them to not be completely bewildered by Royce's grappling.
lol, not even close to Tyson if you have seen his fights. Shamrock, Severn and Kimo were slow as fuck. Kimo was a bodybuilder, he moved like molasses. I'm talking about footwork, about agility, when someone grabs you, how well can you get out of the way.
The guys Royce beat WANTED to tangle up with him because they were hoping they would out grapple him Except for the one-gloved freak that was old and slow. Many times Royce clinged onto someone and slowly dragged him down, it took over 10 seconds.
If Royce by some miracle managed to cling to Tyson without being decapitated on the way in, it would take at least 10 seconds to get Tyson down. Half a second of clinging and Royce would have been unconscious by a quick hook.
Btw, Royce was very lucky that Severn didn't know he could punch from the top (GnP wasn't invented until Coleman) Severn could have beat him to a pulp with all that time Royce spent on the bottom to sink in the triangle. It took him a long ass time, he wasn't that good, Werdum could have probably done it in a couple of seconds.
Ken was a state champion in wrestling, and a good enough college football player to get a tryout with the Chargers. Kimo was a high school wrestler on a powerhouse team, a NJCAA All American in football and had D1 offers. Severn was a highly decorated wrestler and multiple time Olympic team alternate. They were all good athletes. It's not debatable. Tyson's footwork and agility in boxing is so impressive because he's trained in boxing. If you saw him try to wrestle, he'd be far less impressive. Boxing footwork and agility doesn't necessarily translate when grappling or even low kicks are added. And I have seen all of his big fights. In not one of them did anyone ever shoot a double on him. He got clinched in boxing, and didn't manage to agility his way out of the way. An agile sidestep isn't a reliable defense for a takedown with no grappling experience.
Royce is only "not that good" in hindsight, just like guys he fought. In 1993, he was that good, largely because he had a huge set of skills that 99% of martial artists and fighters did not have. Mike Tyson, although he is obviously a better boxer than anyone Royce fought, would also fall into that 99%.
Tyson would do this with his power and hammerfists straight into Gracie who doesn't have Evander Holyfield back muscles.
All it would take is one uppercut in the clinch and Royce would have dieded.
I'm sorry that you sound like you've just started in this sport and believe idiotic things. I gave you too much credit by imagining you'd learn something if you'd been here for awhile. I won't make that mistake again.
To the point, you can't do it, can you?You know you're wrong, so you attack me instead of answering the question.
Go home. Rethink what logic means to you. Come back when you have any evidence, or, better yet, save yourself the trouble and stop trying to argue with your betters.
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